Farms are ruining a great game

[ZeroUnderOne]

Justaburd, I was also wondering the same thing.

I can see it as an issue if pvp2 is constantly flooded by farms and ai controlling dropped matches (I don't really think this is the case though).

If people are just salty that others got 6 shards from farming for an hour vs hitting special spins for 2 weeks, then I don't really care. Zanz can quick and easy fix this by making the cards into relics like suggested earlier.

IMHO, making shards harder to get by turning them into relics or taking away spins from pvp2 or whatever is a bad idea. The way I see it is that you need electrum and upgraded cards to advance the metagame with innovative decks. You need a good deck to win vs FG/arena to win electrum and upps. You need shards in just about all grinder decks. Take it away and all you have is metagame restricted to the same people making the same decks.

[furballdn]

I like how there's no "do nothing" option. Just saying.

[inthisroom]

IMHO, making shards harder to get by turning them into relics or taking away spins from pvp2 or whatever is a bad idea. The way I see it is that you need electrum and upgraded cards to advance the metagame with innovative decks. You need a good deck to win vs FG/arena to win electrum and upps. You need shards in just about all grinder decks. Take it away and all you have is metagame restricted to the same people making the same decks.

How would that change from the way it is now? The result right now is just that even at low levels, people spam the exact same decks that regular grinders can generally only play when they get to Gold or Platinum league (and that without any credit imo), so I don't really believe it helps varying the decks or "advancing the meta", it just contributes to further uniformisation, and people who spam copied decks with farmed shards are definitely not an enriching addition to this game, again, imo.

A lot of electrum is needed to upgrade cards and build competitive decks indeed, the suppression of spins with increased Electrum reward would be one way to fix that without giving Kong players an advantage over those who do it the traditional (intended) way.

[ZeroUnderOne]

How would that change from the way it is now? The result right now is just that even at low levels, people spam the exact same decks that regular grinders can generally only play when they get to Gold or Platinum league (and that without any credit imo), so I don't really believe it helps varying the decks or "advancing the meta", it just contributes to further uniformisation, and people who spam copied decks with farmed shards are definitely not an enriching addition to this game, again, imo.
A lot of electrum is needed to upgrade cards and build competitive decks indeed, the suppression of spins with increased Electrum reward would be one way to fix that without giving Kong players an advantage over those who do it the traditional (intended) way.

I'm not quite sure I follow you. People won't come up with any new deck ideas if everything stays the same, OF COURSE they are going to be spamming the exact same decks to get to the top to be able to afford upped cards/win shards. I'm not saying the metagame changes the moment someone has 6sod/sosa. What I am saying is that having those cards allows them to get to a point where they have the freedom to try new things. Catalysis! haha

So it seems more and more that this isn't an issue with pvp2 being flooded but rather people being salty about farmers getting shards/rares while they had to grind for days. I noticed two incidences of people using some sort of hack in pvp2 that lets them play multiple dragons on the second turn, but the thread about it is locked now. Could someone remind me how Farms are ruining a great game again?

[inthisroom]

Could someone remind me how Farms are ruining a great game again?

1. Flooding farms prevents others to find opponents for "real" pvp.

2. Constant begging for farms pollutes Kong chat to a point where it is sometimes difficult to find an opponent to play a regular game, and it is just plain annoying.

3 It gives those who play on Kong an advantage over those who don't because they are able to spam all rares in pvp and their arena decks at low levels whereas those who are not on Kong and have to grind the traditional way do not have this possibility.

4. Instead of connecting daily over a longer period to grind for rares and make your card base evolve or donate money to support the developper and obtain rares that way, farmers collect all rares quickly without contributing to the game at all and more often than not, disappear again once they obtained those rares.

[esran]

i think the kind of player who would disapear after getting the rares is the kind of player that hates the game and would disapear anyway. and what do you care if someone whos quit the game has all the rares? if they quit they dont effect you anymore. the reason poeple resort to farming is early on this game is incredibly boring. few poeple want to have to grind ai3 for months, but if you want to paly this game the "right" way, thats what you have to do. i personally enjoy playing ai3s when im using creative decks, but back when i started, i hated it because i couldnt afford to use creative decks. i had to use the same deck every time because i couldnt afford to buy lots of decks just because. farming simply allows you to have the freedom to design decks how you want, and to play the game how you want. it means that i dont have to use a deck just because it has a high winrate, i can use a deck because it looks fun and to test out new combos. while i agree that the flooding of pvp is a problem and should be stopped, i disagree that the fact that other players are getting rares the easy way is bad. however, if you dont want to use farms you shouldnt have to, so i think the flooding of pvp should stop.

[ZeroUnderOne]

1. Are the farms flooding pvp2 24/7? Just asked the chat and it seems pvp2 is fine right now.
2. Doesn't ruin the game. Looks like in the last 10 minutes of the chat history, no one has asked for a farm. Maybe we should try random sampling to get an idea of how constant "constant" really is.
3. Doesn't ruin the game.
4. Don't contribute and leave? Doesn't ruin the game. Stick around and add to player base? Sounds like contributing to me.

I'm not sure on the donation issue. I doubt anyone will donate $5-$60 just to finish that splat or instosis or whatever deck they need to start making real electrum. I've been considering donating because I've played the game for a couple weeks now, not because I need a card. That's just me though.

Look, I can go either way on the whole farming issue. I join in on farms once in a while because it is easy elec either by EM or selling the shard. To say that it is ruining the game is pushing it though. At most it is an annoyance to people who want to find random pvp.

[Laxadarap]

1. Are the farms flooding pvp2 24/7? Just asked the chat and it seems pvp2 is fine right now.
The problem is that flooding exists, btw, when you asked if there was any chat, you probably got 3 people back like "ooh, is there a farm up now?"2. Doesn't ruin the game. Looks like in the last 10 minutes of the chat history, no one has asked for a farm. Maybe we should try random sampling to get an idea of how constant "constant" really is.
Oh dear, 10 minutes without a farm.  And constant is that everyday in the last week, and I'm on more thatn I like to realize, there has been like 2 instances where I don't see a farm.  These incidents are in between times of afking, so i'm not sure whats happening in between that, but its definitely prominent enough to notice.
3. Doesn't ruin the game.
It doesn't ruin, it, but is sure as hell is annoying and it makes me not want to play on Kong.  Seriously, the entire chat is filled with flooding requests, "thanks", and "are you still farming"
4. Don't contribute and leave? Doesn't ruin the game. Stick around and add to player base? Sounds like contributing to me.

So now we have a class of elitist noobs with all the shards.  Shards are honestly not that hard to get.  One of the main problems we have in balancing is to make it so there isn't a huge gap between pros and newbies.  Now we have a gap between pros, newbies, and newbies that got farms. This isn't quite fair, and don't say "hey, just give everybody farms"  Rares are rare for a reason.   You are contributing, your just contributing to separation.  Trust me, nobody wants to see splat in pvp1.  That will be a real turnoff.  Noobs ragequit over a lot of stuff, and occasionally flood the "nerf this card section".  We really don't want to frustrate new players.

I'm not sure on the donation issue. I doubt anyone will donate $5-$60 just to finish that splat or instosis or whatever deck they need to start making real electrum. I've been considering donating because I've played the game for a couple weeks now, not because I need a card. That's just me though.
This is what most people do, the shard is just a side effect.  However, it equates to farming.  Farming is the easy way to get shards, so is donating, both take almost no effort.  One way helps the game developer and the other one pollutes pvp2.

Look, I can go either way on the whole farming issue. I join in on farms once in a while because it is easy elec either by EM or selling the shard. To say that it is ruining the game is pushing it though. At most it is an annoyance to people who want to find random pvp.
What most people who do it don't understand, is that it bugs higher level people.  Its not only a shortcut: like the dupe item glitch on minecraft (first example to come to my head), but when youve beaten everything, you get bored.  The best way to alleviate that is to play pvp2.  Then, when you find that every deck you come across is an unupped shreiker rush where the person leaves after waiting for a 70 seconds, or a farm that leaves as well, its a tad annoying.  Most experienced players allready have the shards, and don't need electrum.

[ZeroUnderOne]

Oh man that font color just slaughtered me!

Good points though, can't argue with ya there.

[Dhanzig]

Here is my stance at this time:

 I don't care about ppl getting cards - I'd prefer an even playing field - its the fact that, often, I don't get a body to play against (which is the point of entering pvp, no?) OR I wait in the cue long enough to play AI3 4 or 5 times.

My favorite 2 picks from the list are making dropped games unenterable and patching the game to recognize multitabbing cheats.

[OdinVanguard]

Here is my stance at this time:

 I don't care about ppl getting cards - I'd prefer an even playing field - its the fact that, often, I don't get a body to play against (which is the point of entering pvp, no?) OR I wait in the cue long enough to play AI3 4 or 5 times.

My favorite 2 picks from the list are making dropped games unenterable and patching the game to recognize multitabbing cheats.

" patching the game to recognize multitabbing cheats."
^ This!
I very much agree there.
Its a bug, and a very annoying one at that.
It allows farmers to spam without consequences... I've also lost several hours of work on multiple occasions (I won't go into details but I've learned to be very careful to always close the window before putting my computer to sleep and heading out for the weekend).

Capping the number of times an account can drop a rare from a spin in one day may help too.

[frimax]

I think we don't need all this, maybe just a bunch of like 10 new cards, so we can try new stuff, maybe a level 6 AI, called "TITANS", with 250 HP, they can play shards, miracles, rares, double draw, so you have a chance to win some rares or shards from spins.

The arena was a great add, coz is a different game concept, you can win electrum with any Idea and play really difficult opponents.
The oracle is great as well, you can get weapons and rares from it.

Maybe another concept will be nice, kind of like "Risk(the game)" but will ETG creatures and stuff.
Or maybe just a simple RPG, where you can use your own avatar, and walk around a town and see other players, and fight with them.
Or a Tower defense game with ETG concept and summon your own creatures to fight.

Is just some Ideas.

Cheeeerrrssss.
 8)