Elements Updates

[regen2k9]

I know that it would be foolish for me to expect more updates, as it has been mentioned before that Zanz has things in his personal life that take priority, and furthermore he sees the game as more of a hobby and something to add to his resume.  However, that doesn't change that there are plenty of people who either would love more frequent updates, or would love to see more cards added - sparingly of course - here or there.  Some players have left because of a loss of interest too. 

I know that Zanz has expressed an interest in being the sole programmer, but does that mean that he would be opposed to giving one of our admins access to adding new card here and there?  I don't mean, "OMG let's add 1000 cards to the game and give it just as many cards as MtG!"  No, I just mean one card every month or two.  This would also allow our CIA section to have more of an influence, past being simply hobbies.  It would give CIA fans something more to work towards.

Perhaps we can email Zanz about giving an admin rights to add a card here or there (and NOT to change anything else regarding the game, leaving Zanz as pretty much the sole programmer).

[russianspy1234]

you realize that it's not that simple to add a card right? especially if it's not an ability already in the game.  the A.I. has to be programmed to use it properly for one thing.  All the interactions with it have to be programmed, etc.

[regen2k9]

you realize that it's not that simple to add a card right? especially if it's not an ability already in the game.  the A.I. has to be programmed to use it properly for one thing.  All the interactions with it have to be programmed, etc.

True.  I wonder if Zanz would be against this though.

[russianspy1234]

you realize that it's not that simple to add a card right? especially if it's not an ability already in the game.  the A.I. has to be programmed to use it properly for one thing.  All the interactions with it have to be programmed, etc.

True.  I wonder if Zanz would be against this though.

against people mucking around with the game AI?  most definitely.

[regen2k9]

you realize that it's not that simple to add a card right? especially if it's not an ability already in the game.  the A.I. has to be programmed to use it properly for one thing.  All the interactions with it have to be programmed, etc.

True.  I wonder if Zanz would be against this though.

against people mucking around with the game AI?  most definitely.

Well, the game is at a stand-still until Zanz makes his next move then =/  I'm just trying to think of a way to remedy it with out sending nagging emails to Zanz asking him for more card updates and things.  I just feel that more card updates used sparingly would help keep our fanbase more interested and help CIA as well, if we could get it done somehow.  Say my idea doesn't work...then is there anything else that we, the community, can do?

[plastiqe]

I think regularly adding cards from the top of the CIA polls would be wonderful.  Using card art created by players would be wonderful.  Implementing balance changes agreed upon by the community would be wonderful.  Surely our Admin programmers are skilled enough to work out the bugs.  Would increase forum traffic and likely increase donation revenue too.

[RootRanger]

The only problem is that there isn't really an original, balanced, game-worthy card being added to the CIA every one or two months. Perhaps this could work if we introduced a new card from the CIA once a year.

Otherwise, this idea is fine.

The popularity of Elements has peaked - zanz can't prove his programming skills any further, and it doesn't look like he is trying to. Might as well let the community help out a little. The community could do pretty much all the work for free, and zanz gets all the money. What is there to lose, seriously?

[regen2k9]

The only problem is that there isn't really an original, balanced, game-worthy card being added to the CIA every one or two months. Perhaps this could work if we introduced a new card from the CIA once a year.

Otherwise, this idea is fine.

The popularity of Elements has peaked - zanz can't prove his programming skills any further, and it doesn't look like he is trying to. Might as well let the community help out a little. The community could do pretty much all the work for free, and zanz gets all the money. What is there to lose, seriously?

I think regularly adding cards from the top of the CIA polls would be wonderful.  Using card art created by players would be wonderful.  Implementing balance changes agreed upon by the community would be wonderful.  Surely our Admin programmers are skilled enough to work out the bugs.  Would increase forum traffic and likely increase donation revenue too.

Have we emailed Zanz about this yet?

[OldTrees]

The only problem is that there isn't really an original, balanced, game-worthy card being added to the CIA every one or two months. Perhaps this could work if we introduced a new card from the CIA once a year.

This is one of the major problems. While it is easy to find cards with better design than the shards, it is rare that a card equals Pendulums or Fractal in quality. We could probably get a minimum of 4 quality cards per year provided they when through "In Development".

However adding a new card would be difficult and open the possibility of worse bugs resulting from interactions between the authors codes.

It could be done if Zanz were willing. I would understand if he were unwilling.

[plastiqe]

Not that it will ever happen but......

If we were to implement a community driven system I would argue for a reboot of the entire crucible, forge & armory.  I bet if people knew cards had an actual chance to get into the game the submissions would improve.

[OldTrees]

Not that it will ever happen but......

If we were to implement a community driven system I would argue for a reboot of the entire crucible, forge & armory.  I bet if people knew cards had an actual chance to get into the game the submissions would improve.

Unless there is a revolutionary superior system it would probably reboot only the Crucible and add a new layer. I do expect most ideas would get more fine tuned. (The problem is most of the card creators think their submissions are great)

[OdinVanguard]

...adding a new card would be difficult and open the possibility of worse bugs resulting from interactions between the authors codes...

^This is the crux of the issue with card creation. Balancing is a tricky and time consuming thing to do.

Not that it will ever happen but......

If we were to implement a community driven system I would argue for a reboot of the entire crucible, forge & armory.  I bet if people knew cards had an actual chance to get into the game the submissions would improve.

Unless there is a revolutionary superior system it would probably reboot only the Crucible and add a new layer. I do expect most ideas would get more fine tuned. (The problem is most of the card creators think their submissions are great)

Thorough discussion and analysis at the low end can help. To some extent this happens already. What is missing is a means of quality testing at the higher end...
This means, in my opinion, the community needs to get more involved in play testing at the forge level and higher.
The discussion based sifting / feedback works well at the low end for spotting obvious issues, but true balance and quality control takes play testing.
Without data and feedback from play testing, higher levels of card creation voting will just be more rounds of popularity contests.

So what would be good here is
1) Some form of play testing standard (we have a simulator, so thats perhaps a place to start)
   -This likely will take playing many, many games to get a good feel for a card so there will need to be a way to get lots of community
     members involved.
2) A place in the forge (or maybe a new area altogether) to record play testing data and feedback
   -Without some kind of quantifiable data to base voting off of, the polls will just end up measuring personal opinions.
     (cost theory, etc. are good, but really there is no substitute for play testing)

Once quality testing of cards can be sufficiently improved, then we can think about increasing the frequency of updates. Otherwise we will be in for a nightmare of balancing issues.