Elements Patch 2.p

[plastiqe]

Quint is countered by Death, Fire AND Life. It is far from uncounterable invincibility.
Casting Quint is theoretically equivalent to the creature having +5|+4 casting cost. 30 hp costs much less than that.
The "GG combos" are poorly named. A key trademark of a Stall deck is its inevitable win condition. The key trademark of a Rush deck is its speed. Slow but Inevitable vs Fast but Risky. The match between Stall [Quint + Lava Golem + Control cards] and Rush [2 Lava Golems + More Rush cards] is not obviously going to favor either side.
The hp of a immaterial creatures still matter against the non targeting CC.

I'm refering to uncounterable there in the classic sense of the term.  There are no counterspell cards in Elements.  You can't stop someone from casting a spell, which is what makes spell cards so powerful.  In a balanced game the most effective way of protecting your creatures should be to make them stronger, ie. grant them more Hp. 

The three Shields that can affect Immortal creatures are limited by the fact that they are Shields.  I guess I could have done a better job connecting the two posts, but that list of Hard and Soft CC Spells is 100% countered by Quintessence.

[OldTrees]

Quint is countered by Death, Fire AND Life. It is far from uncounterable invincibility.
Casting Quint is theoretically equivalent to the creature having +5|+4 casting cost. 30 hp costs much less than that.
The "GG combos" are poorly named. A key trademark of a Stall deck is its inevitable win condition. The key trademark of a Rush deck is its speed. Slow but Inevitable vs Fast but Risky. The match between Stall [Quint + Lava Golem + Control cards] and Rush [2 Lava Golems + More Rush cards] is not obviously going to favor either side.
The hp of a immaterial creatures still matter against the non targeting CC.

I'm refering to uncounterable there in the classic sense of the term.  There are no counterspell cards in Elements.  You can't stop someone from casting a spell, which is what makes spell cards so powerful.  In a balanced game the most effective way of protecting your creatures should be to make them stronger, ie. grant them more Hp. 

The three Shields that can affect Immortal creatures are limited by the fact that they are Shields.  I guess I could have done a better job connecting the two posts, but that list of Hard and Soft CC Spells is 100% countered by Quintessence.

Ah. The classical sense is the naive/colloquial sense that excludes indirect or incomplete counters. The classical sense is rarely useful since counter is not a keyword in EtG like it is in some other CCGs. Even in those games the classical sense is not sufficient for deep conversations like this thread.

In a balanced game the most effective way of protecting your creatures should be to make them stronger, ie. increasing hp OR giving beneficial effects like Adrenaline vs Delay. If a card taught a creature rebirth that would strengthen the creature. Hp is just one aspect of the creatures defenses though it is the primary defense.

Yes you are correct that
current CC Spells < Quint < CC shields

[Falconian]

For the most part I smiled while reading the patch.
I love how you get rid of some gimmicks like rewinds, blackhole (still OP imo but meh...), antimatter etc.
Anything that prevents a player to play completely needs a nerf, limited decklock is ok but again, limited.
Really, I've been playing MMOs for 12 years now and never seen so much good stuff in a patch note.

One thing I did not like tho: the speedbow nerf (aka nova/immo nerf).
Speed battles are the funniest things in this game in my opinion.
Those fast yet very engaging speedbow vs speedbow battles are the best times I had in Elements.
ONE point of damage can make you win or lose.
ONE quanta changes the entire game.
I don't think we should do away with fast, adrenalinic, fights, and yet keep the boring deckout decks.
I think people would rather have 10 good fights than 1 exhausting, unsurprising fight.

Overall great patch, if we have to sacrifice speedbows to get rid of the other bull then I'm ready to throw my novas in the bazaar.

[Jenkar]

Speed battles are the funniest things in this game in my opinion.
Those fast yet very engaging speedbow vs speedbow battles are the best times I had in Elements.
ONE point of damage can make you win or lose.
ONE quanta changes the entire game.
I don't think we should do away with fast, adrenalinic, fights, and yet keep the boring deckout decks.

I don't agree with that opinion.
There's nothing sweeter than playing a domination staller, and see the way people try to survive even though they can't. Also, taunting. Seriously, i used to laugh using the ragequit deck.

[plastiqe]

Elements in general needs to slow down.  When you have decks that can win in 5 turns you have to have cards that can stop decks from winning in 5 turns.  The most grotesque example is Supernova and Black Hole.  Supernova is not balanced because of the existence of Black Hole, now you just have 2 OP cards.  I gave a casting cost to Nova & Immo and most of the other cheap powerful cards were nerfed too.

I like each element to develop more independant and unique of each other.  As such, I do not like the direction shards are taking the game.  Should every element have healing...no.  Should every element have PC, CC...no.  Every element should work mechanically different, but still be equally strong and competative.  While I don't like every element having PC, I do think every element should have their own unique way around things like shields or critters.

I really respect jmdt, among others, for the work he has put in building and testing decks.  I more or less agree with him here, except some Elements should have no way around things like shields or critters.  Light for example has no way to bypass and no destruction as a weakness, but they have other strengths to make up for it.

I just added Steal and Deflag, both for 5 cost except Deflag gives some quanta back.  I am in favour of adding more permanent control to the game:  I gave Water the ability to Freeze weapons, Life + Water can bypass shields,  and the Artifact stacking rule is intended to go along with a new Gravity card that can destroy entire stacks of non pillar permanents.

[jmdt]

I like each element to develop more independant and unique of each other.  As such, I do not like the direction shards are taking the game.  Should every element have healing...no.  Should every element have PC, CC...no.  Every element should work mechanically different, but still be equally strong and competative.  While I don't like every element having PC, I do think every element should have their own unique way around things like shields or critters.

I really respect jmdt, among others, for the work he has put in building and testing decks.  I more or less agree with him here, except some Elements should have no way around things like shields or critters.  Light for example has no way to bypass and no destruction as a weakness, but they have other strengths to make up for it.

has ways of dealing with both creatures and permanents, albeight indirectly.  As far as creatures, hope shield can completely dominate creature based strategies once set up and good old fashioned blessed pegasii can probably out run them if they are not rolling a faster deck or hard counters like rewind or gravity shield.  As fas as shields, has the best stalling in the game and can easily outstall and deck another stall.  A field of sanctuaries and a compliment of miracles make it easy to go the distance.

would be a better example of an element that often just has no answer.  If they put out a shield, you just pack it up and go home, even a small one.

[Daguerreo]

Elements Patch 2.p

Quanta Cap raised to 100. Disagree. Bolts nerf is ok

All non-activated Artifacts now stack.  For example, cards like Boneyard and Empathic Bond stack, but Weapons, Shields and activated Artifacts like Sundial do not stack.  Deflagration and Steal each destroy and steal one card from the stack, respectively.  Protect Artifact may only protect one copy in the stack maximum. So why stack? Your solution it is not simple to be implemented

"Aquatic " is a new passive ability for underwater creatures including most Water creatures and cards like Horned Frog.Agree

Flying creatures that lose the "Airbourne" abilty take double damage from direct damage effects.Agree

All Dragons gain the passive ability "Dragonbourne".  Dragonbourne gives a stat increase of +1/+0 for each ten quanta of that creatures Element.  Agree

"Other" category is removed from the game.  Other cards become elemental cards or are removed from the game. Disagree. Why?

Marks are treated as pillars, no longer limited to 6 per deck. Disagree.

Cards (only unupgraded versions shown)

Abomination:  Takes 1 less damage from direct damage sources. why not
[/li]Antimatter:  Four turn duration.  Cost reduced to 7 . don't know
(When the duration runs out the effect will revert.)
[/li]Butterfly Effect:  Cost reduced to 4 . Disagree
[/li]Discord:  Cost increased to 4 , damage increased to 5. Agree only for the cost
[/li]Nova:  Cost increased to 1 , generate 12 quanta randomly. Don't know, maybe is a good solution. What about supernova instead?
[/li]Pandemonium:  Cost increased to 4 . increased to 4? O.o

[/li]Alfatoxin: Cost reduced to 6 . Agree
[/li]Bone Wall:  Now gains only 1 shield charge when a creature is killed. Disagree. Fine as it is.
[/li]Poison:  Cost increased to 2 , inflicts 2 poison damage to a player or 2 poison damage to a creature. Don't like very much this change
[/li]Skeleton:  Stats increased to 2/2. Why?
[/li]Soul Catcher:  Generate when it comes into play. Agree only for upped one
[/li]Virus:  Cost reduced to zero.  Stats changed to 0/1. Agree for stat and disagree for cost.

[/li]Black Hole:  Reduced to absorb 2 quanta per element. Agree a lot
[/li]Catapult:  May now sacrifice your own creatures to deal damage to creatures or players. Agree
[/li]Colossal Dragon:  Stats changed to 8/14. Agree
[/li]Graviton Mercenary:  Each time Graviton Mercenary is delayed it gains +2/+2 Agree
(eg. three turns of Freeze grants +6/+6).
[/li]Sapphire Charger:  Stats changed to 5/4. Agree
[/li]Otyugh:  Stats increased to 0/4.  Devour cost increased to . Not sure about this change

[/li]Basilisk Blood:  Delay lasts 4 turns. Agree
[/li]Earthquake:  Now always leaves one pillar or pendulum in the stack. mmh, not so sure about this
(eg. Casting Earthquake on a stack of two Stone Pillars destroys one Stone Pillar.  Casting Earthquake on one Stone Pillar has no effect).
[/li]Hermatite Golem:  Cost increased to 5 .  Each time you use a burrow ability, Hermatite Golem gains +1/+1.
[/li]Plate Armor:  Now grants +1/+3. Why an armor get atk?
[/li]Shrieker:  Cost reduced to 6 .  Stats reduced to 6/3. Agree
[/li]Titanium Shield:  Cost increased to 5 .  Damage reduction increased to 3. And upped one?

[/li]Cockatrice:  Immune to poison. Agree
[/li]Emerald Shield:  Cost reduced to 4 .  Agree
[/li]Heal:  Heal yourself for 20 HP's.  Heal yourself for 30 HP's if you have 10 HP or less.Why?
[/li]Horned Frog:  Gains Momentum when underwater (Flooding).Agree
[/li]Mitosis:  Cost reduced to 4 .Agree
[/li]Thorn Carapace:  Cost reduced to 6 .Agree

[/li]Ash:  Stats reduced to 0/1.Agree a lot
[/li]Ash Eater:  Each turn is generated. Agree
[/li]Deflagration:  Cost increased to 5 .  Generate 2 when you destroy a permanent. Not sure about this
[/li]Fahrenheit:  Cost increased to 4 .  Damage increased to 6.  Deals 1 additional damage per 10 Fire quanta. Agree
[/li]Fire Bolt:  Cost increased to 4 . Agree
[/li]Fire Spirit:  Stats increased to 2/2. Agree
[/li]Immolation:  Cost increased to .  Sacrifice a creature to generate a maxium of 8 quanta and 12 quanta randomly.
(Hidden minimum is 7 generated, then 12 quanta are generated randomly.) Agree
[/li]Lava Golem:  Stats increased to 5/2. Disagree. 1 hp is fine
[/li]Rage Potion:  The target creature gains +4/-4. why?

[/li]Blue Crawler:  remove 1 poison damage from a creature or player. why?
[/li]Flooding:  Only aquatic creatures can harm you, deals 1 damage to non aquatic/flying creatures.  Lasts 2 turns. not sure about this
[/li]Freeze:  Cost increased to 2 .  May now target creatures or weapons.  Agree
[/li]Ice Bolt:  No longer has a chance to freeze.  Deals double damage to frozen creatures.Agree a lot. I want it.
[/li]Nymph Queen:  Cost reduced to 6 . Agree
[/li]Purify:  May now target creatures or players. I would prefer creatures AND player
[/li]Trident:  May target pillar stacks or artifact stacks.  Always leaves 1 pillar or artifact in the stack.

[/li]Blessing:  Cost reduced to 2 . not sure about it
[/li]Holy Light:  Restores up to 20 lost HP's to target creature, removes all negative effects from Light Creatures. and to a player?
(eg.  If cast on a Light creature Holy Light has the ability to clear debuffs like Antimatter, lobotomize or poison.  It would not remove positive effects like Blessing or Momentum.)
[/li]Luciferin:  No longer heals for 10 HP's.  Heal 1 HP for each creature that already has "bioluminescence". Disgree
(Also applies to Light Nymph.)
[/li]Pegasus:  Stats increased to 4/3.  Dive cost increased to . not sure about it. Cost too much dive?
[/li]Photon:  Heal 1 HP if Photon gains the skill "bioluminescence".Don't understand why
[/li]Sanctuary: Healing decreased to 3 HP per turn.  Cost Reduced to 3 .Agree

[/li]Wyrm:  Stats increased to 3/4.  Dive cost reduced to .Agree
[/li]Firefly Queen:  Cost reduced to 6 . Agree
[/li]Fog Shield:  Cost increased to 3 . Agree
[/li]Thunderstorm:  Cost reduced to .  Temporarily removes "Airbourne" from enemy creatures for two turns. Agree

[/li]Anubis:  Cost reduced to 7 .Disagree
[/li]Devonian Dragon:  Stats changed to 11/4.Agree
[/li]Fate Egg:  Cost reduced to 1 .Agree
[/li]Precognition:  Cost reduced to 1 .Agree
[/li]Reverse Time:  Cost increased to 5 .Agree
[/li]Scarab:  Stats increased to 3/N.Disgree. fine as it is

[/li]Drain Life:  Cost reduced to 2 .Why?
[/li]Minor Vampire:  Stats increased to 2/3.Agree
[/li]Nightfall:  Playing additional Nightfalls grants one turn of the Cloak effect.why?
[/li]Parasite:  Stats increased to 1/3. Agree
[/li]Steal:  Cost increased to 5 Agree
[/li]Vampire Stiletto:  Cost increased to 2 . Agree

[/li]Dimensional Shield:  Cost increased to 7 . Agree
[/li]Immortal:  Gains +1/+0 for each other Immortal you control. Agree
[/li]Lightning:  Cost increased to 3 . Agree
[/li]Quintessence:  Cost reduced to 3 .  Upon gaining Immortality, previous skills are now removed. Agree
(Quintessence only, Anubis and Turquoise Nymph's Immortality abilities do not lobotomize.)
[/li]Spark:  Stats increased to 4/0. Agree
[/li]Turquoise Nymph:  Immortal.[/li][/list]Seems OP

[Daguerreo]

Oh, I forgot to suggest this change:

Make ALL the healing card (miracle too) to target a player, as long as SoSa exsist.