*Author

Offline Icet44Topic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Icet44 is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050396#msg1050396
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 08:10:20 am »
The gains would need to be scaled down so it gets progressively less as it goes on.

These aren't what the final rewards will be, it's a concept.

Offline ARTHANASIOS

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3766
  • Country: gr
  • Reputation Power: 53
  • ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.ARTHANASIOS brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • Cockatrices ftw!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeCard Design Competition - Doomsday Device(TM)Weekly Tournament WinnerBrawl #2 Winner - Team FireSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeElemental Warrior Competition Winner
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050412#msg1050412
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 09:54:36 am »
Nice idea! ;)
I suggest a permanent Shard of Void effect to be on stage against player, which won't be able to be removed. That way, 500 HP stalls ar probably going to fail.
Brawl #1 team :time, Brawl #2 team :fire, Brawl #3 team Silver Ferns, Brawl #4,7,8 Brawlmaster
War #8 team :life, War #10,11,12 team :light, Brawl #6 team FROGS :life

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050420#msg1050420
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2013, 10:21:29 am »
I'd enter level 3/4 with Dimshield, Fractal, SoPa, and BoL's. And then I'd get out of there with billions.

Good idea but too easily exploited with decks that would focus on fast, high damage?
Um. Finite turns of protection (merely 18) would not result in billions. Also you did not mention how you would survive deckout.

All decks would add the standard:
2x Protect Artifact
1x Eternity
3x Time Pillar
1x 0 cost creature or 1 cost matching mark quanta
although this is vulnerable to Quanta Denial so maybe
+1 Protect Artifact
+1 Sanctuary

RoL Hope would have a good attempt if it could protect its RoLs. It would eventually fall when the AI had a growth creature that overcame the DR + Sanctuaries or had enough quanta for a bolt OTK.

However a more controlling deck might work better if it could keep up with the AI without drawing cards.
BE for PC
Purple Nymph for creature negation

However both of these strategies have problems against Fire Shield and all decks would have problems vs Skull Shield and Thorn Carapace.

Of course a deck that could prevent CC shield would have a good show.
Pestal/Pestosis with PC and the antideckout above would be slower than normal but when it works it would be very effective. However it falls to an early protected sanctuary.

So the 3 deck types I would bet on are:
Hope
Repeatible Control
Pests
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:28:57 am by OldTrees »
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline choongmyoung

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Reputation Power: 16
  • choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.choongmyoung is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Me the Korean Cubiest.
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050434#msg1050434
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2013, 12:29:56 pm »
How about just limiting a max reward?
Circular Logic is true. Thus, Circular Logic is true.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050438#msg1050438
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2013, 01:10:24 pm »
How about just limiting a max reward?
Why? People play based on  :electrum/min not  :electrum/game.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Dm

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3928
  • Reputation Power: 56
  • Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Dm is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050546#msg1050546
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2013, 09:23:07 pm »
I'd enter level 3/4 with Dimshield, Fractal, SoPa, and BoL's. And then I'd get out of there with billions.

Good idea but too easily exploited with decks that would focus on fast, high damage?
Um. Finite turns of protection (merely 18) would not result in billions. Also you did not mention how you would survive deckout.

All decks would add the standard:
2x Protect Artifact
1x Eternity
3x Time Pillar
1x 0 cost creature or 1 cost matching mark quanta
although this is vulnerable to Quanta Denial so maybe
+1 Protect Artifact
+1 Sanctuary

RoL Hope would have a good attempt if it could protect its RoLs. It would eventually fall when the AI had a growth creature that overcame the DR + Sanctuaries or had enough quanta for a bolt OTK.

However a more controlling deck might work better if it could keep up with the AI without drawing cards.
BE for PC
Purple Nymph for creature negation

However both of these strategies have problems against Fire Shield and all decks would have problems vs Skull Shield and Thorn Carapace.

Of course a deck that could prevent CC shield would have a good show.
Pestal/Pestosis with PC and the antideckout above would be slower than normal but when it works it would be very effective. However it falls to an early protected sanctuary.

So the 3 deck types I would bet on are:
Hope
Repeatible Control
Pests

I like exxagerating. Read billions as you would read "Hundreds/dozens".

I also never said I would use a finite turn of protection.  Why would I need to survive deckout? I don't need to.

The logic people are following is

1) I'll make a long stall deck dealing damage, staying in the game for the longest time possible. Therefore creating the highest possibly money from it.

But that is actually just as boring as what we are doing now. And I personally believe it could be faster to farm with a quicker, smaller deck. You don't need to avoid deck out -- Who knows, the guy will end up killing before your deck runs out anyway.

Assuming you take Six BoL's, Six Skyblitz, and Six Fractal (Assuming)

One skyblitz is in your hand at all times.

Play BoL, Fractal BoL, Play BoL, use Skyblitz. (5 from the starting BoL, 7*5 from the other 7 BoL's in hand, all that *2 due to skyblitz. 80 Damage.) There are already decks that focus on this damage for quite a low ammount of time. I only picked BoL as an example as it can provide more protection, but the fastest deck that we know so far would be what, the CP wyrms? Assuming we can take a different approach and save the wyrms while defending ourselves, the fastest deck would deal more damage over less time, and even when losing, would give us enough cash money to repeat the next one.

Continuing on the BoL experiment, we're fighting a hypothetical lvl 5. (Dmg / 2) . That means that, just by fractaling and skyblitzing one BoL, I got 40 Electrum.

Theorically, although unlikely, we could multiply 80*6 (Six times what we did), getting the 480. 240 electrum.

While during the long run the big stall will net more profit, it may be that the time taken to deal such damages is quite boring -- Plus fighting the same guy for such a long time is definitely a bore. Therefore, it is more interesting (from the point of view where you are facing more decks.)

The time in which you could deal that damage ( the least amount of turns generating the most damage, in our case the theorical BoL) should be the lowest possible, therefore resulting in more net profit. And then you move to the next AI, facing diversity.

Was I confusing? I'm sorry if I was. What I'm trying to say is that while I may have been wrong while saying BoL, I believe I am not wrong by saying that we should find a deck that deals the highest damage in the least amount of turns consistently to grab the biggest net profit from such endless AI's, instead of making long decks that would take a considerably longer time to set up and succeed in that job; although as time goes by the electrum won by such stalls would be high. Though we don't know if higher than the repeated use of the little time high damage Rush.

Offline OldTrees

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10297
  • Reputation Power: 114
  • OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.OldTrees is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • I was available for questions.
  • Awards: Brawl #2 Winner - Team FireTeam Card Design Winner
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050640#msg1050640
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2013, 04:21:42 am »
@Dm1321
I misread your initial post and inferred incorrectly.

Given the problems I have seen the Eternal Stall decks having I think that the deck type you were describing (Finite turns of survival, no anti deckout, quickly maximizing damage per turn) would also be a contender. I don't see it eclipsing the Eternal Stalls but I do think it would compete among them.
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Mathematistic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 796
  • Country: hk
  • Reputation Power: 11
  • Mathematistic is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.Mathematistic is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • Games are never too easy.
Re: Endless Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47621.msg1050668#msg1050668
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2013, 09:58:42 am »
How about just limiting a max reward?
Why? People play based on  :electrum/min not  :electrum/game.

This is the line. Actually, also score/min for 1m-tionists
An eternal stall is not necessarily better than a vampiric monodark which can hit for ~30/turn in midgame while sustaining. Although, yeah, qunited golems and elite queen are powerhouses for eternal rainbow. (That is, if reward is based on amount of damage done)
But, for this mode to be successful, it has to offer more :electrum/min or score/min than FG/Plat. Let's use plat as an example. Calibrate the :electrum/min or score/min of Pdials against other game modes. A typical Pdails match wins 1 game in ~5mins, and each win is roughly 500-600 :electrum (factoring in rarespins and deducting lose) and ~250 score/game (factoring in loses too). Divide that by 2.5 mins, you get 200 electrum/min and 100 score/min. Have to be on par with or exceed that to be play-worthy for veteran grinder.

But it is quite grim that only :electrum/min and score/min is sought after, not actual fun. Eliminating grinding is impossible; but at least, make grinding fun, and reward player skill in grinding. Executing a certain strategy successfully gives players a lot of satisfaction (see Extra Credits on Counter Play), and countering one gives even more. A player making up his own strategy is even more satisfying, but the problem is that most of the effective strategies are already explored. Again, it goes back to the Arena model. The idea of forcing you to build a deck with 5 predefined cards is good in theory (until oraclebows emerged, until everything ghostmare, until wait-for-a-meta-card). A game mode that is grind optimisable is just another grind mode...
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

 

blarg: