Aw man. On a poor keyboard, without any mouse... 'dis gonna be hard to reply to.
Anyway, let's skip all the astrology stuff that has absolutely no meaning inside our argument, shall we.
I'd like to start off by addressing that I did not see your defending of my primary point clearly in any of your motives, which is obviously why I pointed it out. Further on, I'm finding you to reply with increasing rudeness and sarcasm. I'm seriously holding back because I'm trying not to make this into a flame war, but it's getting hard. Yes, yes it is hard. The communication isn't coming across, but I don't feel like that's Mercury's fault, poor Mercury..
Ah, and I hope that you do not feel bad that I stated myself the way I did above. I'm only complying with how I feel is right after you have oh so blatantly made fun and mocked me in a few last posts. Okay? ^^
Anyway, no actual quotes now. The quotes are becoming long, and I got no mouse. Let's go name-less quotes. Wee.
When Elmachtronic's opponent (most likely the AI) used the Congeal ability on his creature, the mouseover information would have shown the affected creature to be frozen for 4 turns. From this, Elmachtronic could speculate or assume that Congeal means "Freeze for 4 turns". Although such an assumption would be correct, neither the mouseover information nor any other information available to Elmachtronic during the duel could verify or confirm the assumption's correctness. Additionally, the full meaning of Freeze/Congeal (cannot attack or use skills) must be extrapolated from observation on subsequent turns. Nothing available to Elmachtronic during his duel stated that, making it impossible to understand the effect at the moment it was played.)
It's not an assumption. It's a fact. It's on the game screen. It's just after the card was played. It's on the game screen. It's on the creature that was targeted. It's on the game screen. It's on pretty numbers right in front of your eyes. It is not an assumption -- It is obviously, a FACT. It's concrete, unrefutable, undeniable. It's the living proof that the game does show us what happened. There is no assumption, there is the number Four right in front of the word Frozen. There is absolutely no other way to interpret the number unless you're trying really hard to find a different sense. Again, I would like to reinstate that in your first post in this thread (Not the first post -- Pella's first post in this thread), you have already stated that Congeal says on the card that it is for four turns -- Would you please specify if it does or not? According to you, congeal says, on the CARD, that it is FROZEN FOR FOUR TURNS. This means that there is no assumption, not even through numbers or mousing over a card - It's on the description of the card named "Congeal". That's even more unrefutable, undeniable, proof. So, would you clear that one for me? Is your first post correct or not in saying that the four turns are specified in the Congeal card?
I do not understand the last part of extrapolating the meanings, and as such will refrain from further commentaries in that place.
At no point did I contradict myself. When I read the OP, it seemed clear to me that Elmachtronic had encountered a deck containing one or more Arctic Octopus cards and zero Congeal cards. I have encountered many such decks, so I found my assumption entirely reasonable. Under such conditions, a player would be exposed to the Arctic Octopus's Congeal ability ("Congeal the target creature.") without exposure to the full explanation available on the Congeal card. Only by leaving the duel could a player facing such a deck find this information.)
Read above. Your first post says that Congeal specifies it is freeze for four turns. Now you've told me, twice, that Congeal does not specify the amount of turns. Does it or does it not? I agree with your assumption of the Arctic Octopi, and I, Dm1321, Defender of the Mouseover, should reinstate that once again. ^^
Also, a normal player could have found the info of Congeal in it's unupgraded counter part -- Freeze (PS: Most people find Freeze before Arctic Octopi unless you jump into PVP2 or Higher arena levels), and since it's upgraded, it is quite obvious that what it does is similar if not exact (it even has the same animation of "freezing" the creature card.) With the only difference being one turn. So yes, maybe it's not 100% specified that the card congeals and you can't attack, activate ability, and blah blah blah -- But if you're facing arctic octopi the chances of you having seen freeze before is pretty high. Just like the rent. Too damn high.
insufficient resources in-game (Another reference to the mouseover information.)
As I have stated, it seems pretty darn complete to me. The freeze says that the creature is frozen. You figure out that the creature can't fight or activate it's skill In game (Seriously, you're being targeted by the Congeal ability of an Arctic Octopi -- Do you think knowing what it does would change anything in the next one turn it will take for you to understand what's going on?) and you know the amount of turns by the mouse - over. Congeal is one of the most specific cards in game as to what it does. Maybe if you were talking about something like Mutation. Or Pandemonium. Or possibly even Chaos Seed..
(Keyword: "complete". In the absence of a Congeal card in the opponent's deck, prior knowledge, or resources outside the duel, it is impossible for a player to have a full understanding of Arctic Octopus's ability at the moment the ability is played.)
I agree. If you have never seen the freeze or the congeal or an arctic octopi before, you don't know what's going on. But let's take into account.
1) You would have to have skipped most of the AI levels, including AI3, that includes Freeze in a few decks, so you have never, ever seen freeze.
2) You would have to instantly skip to the PVP1 (Unlikely to find arctic octopus, due to most amount of newbies) and you would most likely face a freeze before an Octopus anyway
3) You would have to instantly skip to the PVP2 (Not as unlikely but not common to find Arctic Octopi, due to the amount of other more useful decks) and you would most likely quit the PVP2 before you run across an arctic octopus.
Chances of you seeing the Arctic Octopus, un-upgraded or not, without any prior knowledge or resources outside the duel, is incredibly, incrediibly, incrediiiiiiiibly low. Like. Really low.
My purpose in supporting Elmachtronic's point was not to say, "Ermahgerd, this is a problem, we need to fix it NOW!!" I added my voice to Elmachtronic's as a way of saying, "You know, when I started playing this game just two months ago, I had a similar experience. Perhaps the community should take a look at the situation and determine whether something should be changed." Discussing a card's text in light of player experiences never guarantees that a change occurs. Not discussing it, on the other hand, always guarantees that no change occurs. I merely wanted to support our new player so that we could discuss the issue. I'm not so arrogant as to believe that I have the world's best ideas and that everyone should do things my way. When I present an idea, I expect others to present their ideas so that all parties may learn from the experience. You did present your case, and I presented mine in such a way that you were unable to see that I was using your case as a foundation for my own, rather than taking an opposing view. I take responsibility for writing under the adverse conditions of being very tired, a Mercury retrograde, and failing to consider how my statements might be perceived.
I know that it is though to understand what some of the cards mean, but you will almost always understand what is going on one or two turns, and at the worst case scenario, after the match ends. And most likely, even if you knew what the card was gonna do, you wouldn't be able to prepare for it very well either way, so it wouldn't change much. I understand your want to support the new player, but I think that we're arguing over the wrong hypothetical card for the wrong hypothetical reasons. Freeze is a very specific card on what it does and Arctic Octopus is really though to find in PVP1. I understand what you're getting at and I even agree with some of your points, but not with this card specifically. Some cards, yes, they May need a bit more of Information -- But that information is usually funnier to see through the actual gaming, and it's always nice to see something that you didn't know happen in game. This may not be the case of freeze when it's used on you, but you most likely understand freeze one turn after it is played anyway. Unless the card does not explain something that makes it 100% non-understandable (Imagine that SoW has absolutely no text talking about spell damage. That'd make it confusing.), I don't think it requires text change.
My apologies. I was posting from my phone, I was tired, Annele and I simulposted, and I didn't realize I had doubled until you mentioned it. Mea culpa.
It's aright. ^^
The OP made it glaringly obvious (to me) that the writer was a new player who had encountered Congeal as an ability on a card played against him, not a veteran who saw it on one of his own cards. I perceived the statement as arrogant and elitist. I also perceived that you were implying that the OP writer was an idiot, I was an idiot, or both. Whether or not my perceptions were in line with your intentions, I responded poorly.
THE BOTTOM LINE: I heard you. I understood you. I was building on top of your point, not refuting it. I hate that this turned into an argument. May we please just shake hands and be friends?
Hrm. I didn't see it as glaringly obvious he faced Congeal on an ability on a card played against him. If you perceived the statement as arrogant and elitist, then I would like to apologize -- The way that you worded yourself before I posted made it seem that the person was using the card himself. But whether the person is or isn't using the card himself isn't the big deal, as you should have quite experience before facing an Arctic Octopi, upgraded or non.
I heard you, I understood you, but I did not recognize your building. I only saw refuting. I am sorry that it had to go that way. I would be glad to shake your hand. Or give you a high five. Or possibly a hug.
PS: If any, any, and I mean, any of the sentences of mine in this post came across as extremely sarcastic, arrogant, or downright insulting, I would like to add that it was not my intention and I deeply apologize if it comes across that way.
Edit: Random BCC codes and accents taken away from the Post. Silly keyboard.
