Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Game Suggestions and Feedback => Topic started by: Karma Sword on June 23, 2010, 04:42:19 pm
-
At first, I apologize, Because I can't speak english well. Maybe there are many wrong scentences.
But I love Elementsthegame, and I have a suggestion.
So please read this, please.
When Bone Wall first equipped, it has 7 amounts. So I think it is 1 set of Bone Wall.
So When using Deflagration to Bone Wall, it has to destroy 7 Bone Walls. I think it is correct.
But Stealing Case, use Steal and use creature control, it can be a good defence.
So it doesn't need to be upgrade. I think.
Finally using skills like Destroy, I think it is same with Deflagration.
But it can be used by every creature and Pulverizer per turn. and every creatures hit the Bone Wall per turn.
So it doesn't need to be upgrade, too.
Thank you very much for read this.
And if this post causes any problems to this site, and who read this, rules. I will erase immediately.
Thank you again.
-
To anyone who didnt understand, he was saying destructive skills like destroy and defrag remove 7 bone walls, since it comes out at 7.
Stealing would still only steal 1 bone wall.
And I THINK he is also saying that bone wall lasts 7 turns? maybe? Im not quite sure what he meant by
But it can be used by every creature and Pulverizer per turn. and every creatures hit the Bone Wall per turn.
So it doesn't need to be upgrade, too.
-
Bone wall's strength is that it can't be destroyed easily by deflagration.
When you play a bone wall, it's like playing 7 pillars in that you play 7 bones. When you deflag a pillar, should the entire stack of pillars be destroyed? No. Same with bonewall.
-
Bone wall's strength is that it can't be destroyed easily by deflagration.
When you play a bone wall, it's like playing 7 pillars in that you play 7 bones. When you deflag a pillar, should the entire stack of pillars be destroyed? No. Same with bonewall.
Yes, I understand. Thank you. But I think when play a pillar makes one pillar, one Bone Wall makes 7 bones. Even creature dies, makes more and more.
So I think like this.^^
-
That's the whole point of bone wall though (and :death) if it did this then it wouldn't nearly be as good.
-
To anyone who didnt understand, he was saying destructive skills like destroy and defrag remove 7 bone walls, since it comes out at 7.
Stealing would still only steal 1 bone wall.
And I THINK he is also saying that bone wall lasts 7 turns? maybe? Im not quite sure what he meant by
But it can be used by every creature and Pulverizer per turn. and every creatures hit the Bone Wall per turn.
So it doesn't need to be upgrade, too.
Thank you for your kindness.^^
I don't think Bone Wall lasts 7 turns. I mean, compare Deflagration with Steal, Steal can provide more benefits than Deflagration, I think, so I mention that.
Honestly, I'm Fire Deck, less creature user.^^
And Now I read a dictionary and write a post. So my English is very poor. Sorry about that.
-
That's the whole point of bone wall though (and :death) if it did this then it wouldn't nearly be as good.
Hmm, Yes. Maybe right. But when the opponent plays Bone Wall, and Bone Yard. And he starts to kill his own little creatures, I will be in a very serious trouble.
-
That's the whole point of bone wall though (and :death) if it did this then it wouldn't nearly be as good.
Hmm, Yes. Maybe right. But when the opponent plays Bone Wall, and Bone Yard. And he starts to kill his own little creatures, I will be in a very serious trouble.
That's why you build counters to it (creature swarming) every deck has weaknesses maybe yours is bone wall.
-
That's the whole point of bone wall though (and :death) if it did this then it wouldn't nearly be as good.
Hmm, Yes. Maybe right. But when the opponent plays Bone Wall, and Bone Yard. And he starts to kill his own little creatures, I will be in a very serious trouble.
That's why you build counters to it (creature swarming) every deck has weaknesses maybe yours is bone wall.
Thank you for your advice. I will make a counter build. Right. Every deck has weaknesses...
-
bone wall might be threatening at first glance, but in reality it's weak if not supplied with more bones. against some decks, like mass skeleton generator, it even sucks than a shield with 1 shield point.
-
Deflag destroys 1 shield right?
Players can only have one shield right?
So how come deflag doesn't destroy bone wall?
-
Deflag destroys 1 shield right?
Players can only have one shield right?
So how come deflag doesn't destroy bone wall?
because bone wall stacks.
-
Players can only have one shield right?
You can have multiple shields, but there is only one slot. Any shield you play will replace the one in the slot. Deflagration only destroys 1 item in a stack, e.g. a pillar.
-
the way ive looked at it is 1 deflag destroys 1 wall, but there are 6 more behind that one :P
-
Thank you for everyone who read this topic.
Maybe the point is 'when every shield first equipped, can destroy with one deflagration or steal, but Bone Wall is not. There remains 6 more stacks.'
Phase Shield lasts 3 turns, but it destroys. Every shield does.
If we limits the point 'Why only endurance of Bone Wall against deflag is too high? It is unfair!'. How can explain this unfair?
Finally, from your advice, I don't think 'deflag must destroy 7 bone'. But just still remains some questions.
Thank your for reading. I'm not confident grammer. And sorry, posting is too delayed because of language problem.
-
Thank you for everyone who read this topic.
Maybe the point is 'when every shield first equipped, can destroy with one deflagration or steal, but Bone Wall is not. There remains 6 more stacks.'
Phase Shield lasts 3 turns, but it destroys. Every shield does.
If we limits the point 'Why only endurance of Bone Wall against deflag is too high? It is unfair!'. How can explain this unfair?
Finally, from your advice, I don't think 'deflag must destroy 7 bone'. But just there remains still question.
Thank your for reading. I'm not confident grammer. And sorry, posting is too delayed because of language problem. Sorry!
No problem, you are doing great, and the people here understand that english isnt your first language. We are understanding... well most of us are anyways :)
-
haha i do :)
But i would like to give my point of view on it.
For example (someone said) phase shield
phase shield lasts 3 turns then vanishes. (so its just one shield that goes after 3 turns, but is destroyed in one shot since its one shield)
now for bonewall, it lasts the attack of 7 creatures, then vanishes. ( so that makes 7 different shields. and since steal(or deflag) only remove ONE permanent it only removes one of 7 bonewall 'counters'
hope this made the point clear,
+karma if this is a good explanation :P
BloodAngel.
-
BluePriest, I'm comfortable in this site, and in this game. Glad to hear that.^^
BloodAngel, Good explanation! Thank you.^^ 7 diffrent shields.
... And I can't find how to give Karma point;; So I'm still find it.
-
Actually I think the correct number should be 2 bone walls/deflag or explosion. The rationale behind this is that since one dead creature contributes two sets of bones, it is unreasonable to expect the magnitude of an explosion to only destroy the skull, or only destroy the ribcage etc etc. If it were a massive or colossal dragon I'd understand, but that would make things too complicated ::) And it actually fits the logic because it's difficult to steal one creature's whole "skeleton", at most you can run away with one chunk of it, hence you get one set of bones to build a wall with.
-
There is no "correct" number. Deflagration/Explosion is just a bad counter to Bonewalls, and with stupidly low cost of the spell itself, I'm glad there is a decent shield in the game that says "go (something) yourself" to cheap fire control.
Actually, overall destruction of something called permanent in this game is way too cheap and easy.
If you're going by reality comparing explosions to shield of bones, than why do stuff like fireflies, photons and similar "creatures" remove walls?
-
Actually I think the correct number should be 2 bone walls/deflag or explosion. The rationale behind this is that since one dead creature contributes two sets of bones, it is unreasonable to expect the magnitude of an explosion to only destroy the skull, or only destroy the ribcage etc etc. If it were a massive or colossal dragon I'd understand, but that would make things too complicated ::) And it actually fits the logic because it's difficult to steal one creature's whole "skeleton", at most you can run away with one chunk of it, hence you get one set of bones to build a wall with.
If they can steal a whole pillar, then im pretty sure a whole skeleton wouldnt be any problem :P
-
from a logical point of view (or MtG point of view) the shield itself is a single card that comes into play with 7 counters.
remove one counter to prevent all the damage from a single source.
that's why i also think that a deflagration should remove the whole bone shield (and not a single counter)...
a spell targets the card, not the counters...
but i understand that the card was meant to be the way it is now..
so i am not whining furthermore :)
-
The description of the card Bone Wall: "Summon 7 bone shields that absorb damage from a single source. Gain 2 shields when a creature is killed."
It's quite clear that Bone Wall is intended to behave as multiple stacking shields, both from the description and the lack of change over so many new versions of the game. As others have said, having a deflagration destroy multiple charges makes deflagration far too powerful. It's one of very few single-card counters to shield destruction.
-
from a logical point of view (or MtG point of view) the shield itself is a single card that comes into play with 7 counters.
remove one counter to prevent all the damage from a single source.
that's why i also think that a deflagration should remove the whole bone shield (and not a single counter)...
a spell targets the card, not the counters...
but i understand that the card was meant to be the way it is now..
so i am not whining furthermore :)
Bonewall is not ONE shield. It is a stack of 7 shields. Just like stack of pillars is stack of pillars. The only difference is that Bonewall CARD places 7 stacks at once.
-
i don't think that the shield slot is "stackable", because if i play 2 fire buckler they don't stack...
-
i don't think that the shield slot is "stackable", because if i play 2 fire buckler they don't stack...
Its not the slot that is stackable, it is the card itself.
Permanent slots arent always stackable. In fact they only are if its a pillar. Same with shields. The slot itself isnt what determines if it is stackable or not, it is the card.
-
so the bone wall card is stackable?
what if i play a bone wall when there's a bone wall in play?
does it stack?
-
because bone wall stacks.
Read the shield slot. One shield per player. Shields cannot stack without breaking this rule. Thus bone walls break the rules.
To make them work within the rules, bone walls should use "charges". Each damage source removes a charge but 1 deflag destroys the whole shield.
-
because bone wall stacks.
Read the shield slot. One shield per player. Shields cannot stack without breaking this rule. Thus bone walls break the rules.
To make them work within the rules, bone walls should use "charges". Each damage source removes a charge but 1 deflag destroys the whole shield.
You have to think beyond that :P
You have to compare it with a lot of obstacles (bones) that block one damage source at a time.
You if i put a bone like this _ (ground) | (bone) its like
_|_|_|_|_|_|_ etc
whether its a deflag/steal or a damage source it just removes one stick, but there are many others beyond that one.
But i do recommend giving Zanz the opportunity to make the decission,
and you guys, don't spend your time to discuss about this card :P
-
If this is implemented bone wall loses a lot of it's appeal though, I can't see why you think it's OP as it is because I think it's just right and fits the death elemental theme right.
-
If this is implemented bone wall loses a lot of it's appeal though, I can't see why you think it's OP as it is because I think it's just right and fits the death elemental theme right.
agreed :) plus the bone wall forms an excellent combo with oty or RoF against the FG
if your using a traditional rainbow
-
so the bone wall card is stackable?
what if i play a bone wall when there's a bone wall in play?
does it stack?
Its because Bone wall itself is a stack of shields. You cant stack stacks, the new stack will replace the old stack.
because bone wall stacks.
Read the shield slot. One shield per player. Shields cannot stack without breaking this rule. Thus bone walls break the rules.
To make them work within the rules, bone walls should use "charges". Each damage source removes a charge but 1 deflag destroys the whole shield.
Its one shield card with 7 shields on it.
-
Blue most of your time you make stuff up :P :P
you can stack shields because the bone shield is stackable, but you can't stack stacks of bone shields? :P
give me a break :P
the real problem here is that there is one exception on the rules just for one card, it does not really make sense to me...
Its one shield card with 7 shields on it.
so it's a single card with "shield counters" on it...
i am deflagrating the card (which is 1 as you say) so it should go away with one shot...
-
i am deflagrating the card (which is 1 as you say) so it should go away with one shot...
No you're not. Where did you read that? You're deflagrating one permanent, not one card. Spells are applied to creatures and permanents, not cards.
-
i am deflagrating the card (which is 1 as you say) so it should go away with one shot...
No you're not. Where did you read that? You're deflagrating one permanent, not one card. Spells are applied to creatures and permanents, not cards.
:-\
you got me,
i don't know what to say,
i said card instead of permanent... :'(
-
Blue most of your time you make stuff up :P :P
you can stack shields because the bone shield is stackable, but you can't stack stacks of bone shields? :P
give me a break :P
the real problem here is that there is one exception on the rules just for one card, it does not really make sense to me...
Its one shield card with 7 shields on it.
so it's a single card with "shield counters" on it...
i am deflagrating the card (which is 1 as you say) so it should go away with one shot...
Notice how this game is not magic.
I never said shield counters. I said a stack of 7 shields. Each shield is 1 permanent. The same logic is applied to pillars. You have a limit of permanent slots, but your pillars do not take up 1 slot each, the same is applied here.
Now as to the stacks not stacking, that is actually very simple. THEY DONT. Im not making anything up there, its just a fact of lifetm. Look at it like this. The general rule of shields is that UNLESS THE CARD SAYS OTHERWISE they do not stack.
Bone wall says that you can place 1 bone wall, and it "summons 7 bone shields that absorb damage from a single source."
Say you have 20 bone walls up right now. You play it, like any other shield, it replaces your current shield (which just so happens to be a bone wall)l and "summons 7 bone shields that absorb damage from a single source."
Theres nothing that defies logic about this card. It wouldnt make since if it DID stack 7 more onto each bone wall you play.
-
Its not that you just "said" card instead of permanent, you're basing your whole logic that deflagration destroys a card. Which is not true.
-
i like this forum because arguing about elements rules is so fun, but everyone remain with the original idea even after 20 pages of a thread :D
but no! this time i have to say: BP u convinced me!
your explaination makes somewhat sense (but it's still too much for me to accept "stacking" in a slot that is normally not stackable :D)
-
i like this forum because arguing about elements rules is so fun, but everyone remain with the original idea even after 20 pages of a thread :D
but no! this time i have to say: BP u convinced me!
your explaination makes somewhat sense (but it's still too much for me to accept "stacking" in a slot that is normally not stackable :D)
Ill take it lol
-
The shield slot states that it's one shield per player. Deflagration destroys a shield. The correct interaction is incredibly obvious. Why is that not the way it works?
-
The shield slot states that it's one shield per player. Deflagration destroys a shield. The correct interaction is incredibly obvious. Why is that not the way it works?
Because the card bone wall also states "Summons 7 bone shields". So deflagration destroys one of them.
-
Because the card bone wall also states "Summons 7 bone shields". So deflagration destroys one of them.
7 shields =/= 1 shield. Read the rules.
-
Because the card bone wall also states "Summons 7 bone shields". So deflagration destroys one of them.
7 shields =/= 1 shield. Read the rules.
Which part of the rules says "you may have no more than one shield at any time even if another card says you can"? Is this continuing in the long tradition of "you can only draw one card a turn not even if you use precognition, an hourglass or a sundial"?
Here's the scoop: the cards trump the rules. If the rules say no creature can have an attack greater than 12, and you play a ruby dragon, the ruby dragon just won. So when bone wall says "Summons 7 bone shields", it gets the casting vote.
-
"you can only draw one card a turn not even if you use precognition, an hourglass or a sundial"?
The rules only state that you draw 1 card a turn, they don't say anything about not drawing any more.
-
Playing down a Bonewall is like playing down 7 shields . <-- a period
-
Playing down a Bonewall is like playing down 7 shields
And it shouldn't be as that breaks the rules.
-
Playing down a Bonewall is like playing down 7 shields
And it shouldn't be as that breaks the rules.
Lets just say for 1 moment, that I agree with you, which I dont.
I play a bone wall. Yay. I block one of my enemies attacks. Worst Shield Ever. Unless I play a RoF with it, but then to get any use I need at least a duo deck, and 5 :fire + 5 :death so 10 quanta for a shield. Which makes it the most worthless card in the world.
-
i suppose dracomageat wants to say that the shield should be one , while the prevention from 7 sources is represented by some kind of counter that decreases after each prevention...
-
Exactly. Use "charges" like sundial, dimensional shield and steam machine do.
-
Playing down a Bonewall is like playing down 7 shields
And it shouldn't be as that breaks the rules.
But it is.
Just because it makes your phoenix rush deck suck at life doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
Plus, it would make gods harder. I used a rainbow deck for a year before switching to RoL/Hope (mainly because Hope hadn't been released) and bonewall saved my life countless times.
-
Why is this even OP, rules can be rewritten but what's the point just to accommodate one card, I can't see why you're so annoyed with it as it feels fine to me and can be beaten by and mass creature deck. This question should be answered before debating whether deflag should destroy seven.
-
How many times do I have to state that this is solely a rules issue?
You could make it immaterial for all I care as long as it uses charges.
-
Why are you so bothered then if you think it's fine. I fail to see the point.
-
How many times do I have to state that this is solely a rules issue?
You could make it immaterial for all I care as long as it uses charges.
But it doesnt break the rules as it is so there IS NO rule issue. Its been said that it places 1 stack of 7 Shields.
1 bone WALL card lays 7 Bone SHIELDS. Those 7 SHIELDS make up the 1 WALL, so you have to destroy all the SHIELDS before the WALL breaks down.
And it is common knowledge in card games that this is how it goes.
Rules<Cards
The cards always have more influence than the rules itself, as in card games, they are more of guidelines than rules.
. If there was a card that said your opponent loses 7 creature spaces, then that card overwrites the rule of having the normal amount. That does not mean the rule is broken, it means that there is an exception to the guideline. There is nothing wrong with that
-
How many times do I have to state that this is solely a rules issue?
You could make it immaterial for all I care as long as it uses charges.
Could you please provide a link to a quote by one of the developers where they unequivocally say "There is never to be any stacking in the shield slot, not even if a card says there is, because that would be silly."?
blarg: