Creature Classification [NEW]

[Lanidrak]

Ok, so a major edit to this original post. That is why the next few posts seem off topic.

Okay, so right now creatures have a few things to them.

Current Creature Statistics
Name: What the creature is referred to.
a Cost: What it costs to put this creature on the board, from your hand.
Statistics: It's offensive and defensive capabilities. (Also called Attack & Hitpoints)
An Ability (active): Which costs x quanta and has a unique effect, like a spell
An Ability (passive): Which happens at the end of your turn, every turn, as long as the creature is in play.
 
Now, what I am proposing is that we add a new 'layer' to creatures.

The new layer will be a Classification. This will be regardless of which element the card belongs to, every (or most) creature cards should be Classified in some way.

Some example Classifications, with example creatures.
(If you can think of any others, either Classifications or creatures I have missed out, let me know!)

Beast
Cockatrice, Horned Frog, Abomination, Lycanthrope, Pegasus, Wyrm, Otyugh - are all considered Beasts.
Dragon
Purple, Bone, Colossal, Stone, Emerald, Crimson, Ice, Golden, Azure, Devonian, Black and Phase Dragons. Are all considered Dragons.
Spirit
Fire Spirit, Forest Spirit, Deja Vu, Guardian Angel and Photons are all considered Spirits.
Undead
Bone Dragon, Skeleton, Vampire and Mummy - are all considered Undead.
Spider
Flesh Spider and Phase Spiders, are obviously, Spiders.
Golem
Haematite Golem, Lava Golem and Armaggio are all considered to be Golems.

I am unsure about this next part:
Flying
Pegasus and Wyrms are considered to be Flying Creatures.
Skeleton
Skeletons are obviously considered to be Skeletons.

Hopefully, as you can see some of the creatures overlap. For example,
A Bone Dragon has a classification of "Undead Dragon"
A Wyrm is considered to be a "Flying Beast"
A Skeleton is a "Undead Skeleton"

The reason I was unsure about "Flying" is because I want to change the way Dive works. Flying creatures should ignore shield effects, but when they "Dive" they gain 2x attack, but are affected by shields. What this (the entire thread, not just the part about "Flying" & "Diving") will hopefully let us achieve, is cross-element cards which buff a certain "Classification". I'll call one card to your attention, Eclipse. It makes all Death & Darkness creatures more powerful. How about cards which affect a certain "Classification"? This way, you can build a deck around a certain "Type" of card, instead of a certain "Element".

Some example cards
with the new "Classifications" taken into consideration

a Dragon Lord, which adds +2/+2 to all your Dragons in play.
a Beast Master, which "reduces the cost" of all "Beasts" by 1 quanta. (Don't flame this one, it's an example)
a Necromancer, which adds +1/+2 to all "Undead" creatures in play.
a Dark Ritual card, which adds the classification "Undead" to a target creature.
a Spiders Nest permanent, which creates a random "Spider" every turn.

Authors Note:
I'm getting a bit sentimental these days

It is my personal belief that Elements does not need lots of new cards at the moment, it rather needs to expand on what it has. New cards will keep people amused for a while, but to make sure people are hooked, we need to elaborate on the key features and core structure of the game.

Take this analogy; you build a house, it has a foundation, walls, a door, a roof. If you want to add a second floor you have to first remove the roof, and possibly build a new one to put on your second floor, while you do this you add a staircase and decide you want to add a window. The addition of this window will require the outer wall to be changed.

Ultimately, as your house grows in size, it is in danger of collapsing. So, for those of you who are still with me on this, let us try to construct a stronger foundation before our skyscraper collapses in on itself?


Thank you for taking the time to read all that.

Your thoughts, flames and constructive criticisms are what I really want.

[Lanidrak]

Just a further note on Classifications:

Currently a creature has:
Statistics (Attack Rating | Defense Rating)
Element (One of the 12)
Cost (relative to it's Statistics)
Active Ability (Click this creature to cause ability to happen)
Passive Ability (At the end of your turn, your creature does this)
Status (Your creature is frozen/time bubbled/poisoned)

A classification will be a new part of a creature, in that it stacks with everything else. This opens up possibilities for a card which turns a creature Undead. So if I play this card - lets call it 'Necromancy' for arguments sake - on a Golden Dragon. The Golden Dragon will remain a 10/10 'Dragon' (classification), it will remain of the Light Element, but will now also be considered 'Undead'. When this 'Undead Dragon' dies, if I have the required 11 quanta, the dragon will be a) returned to my hand if theres room, or b) returned to a random place in my deck.

The idea of classifications is that they open up new possibilities for cards. One rudimentary example again, would be a Dragon Master, with the ability that all 'Dragons' gain +2/+2.

Another Classification could be 'Inorganic' or 'Mechanical' this could apply to all Animated Weapons, Photons and Malignant Cells - and 'Inorganic' or 'Mechanical' creatures are not valid targets for Devour.

Just my thoughts, let me know what you think.

[AiBerry]

The classifications sound cool, but I'm not really thinking too hard on that concept. Its late, and I should be in bed xD

My problem is with the dying creatures returning to your hand for the cost of quantum. I do NOT think this a good feature to be implemented.
1. It basically immortalizes death creatures (they don't need much help as it is) making them OP in my opinion.
2. It's quanta draining. An otyugh constantly eating my light dragon will drain the quanta I need to play miracle to save my butt. Or in the case of the undead, something kills my bone dragon and saps the quanta i need to lay down a bone wall to protect myself. If its implemented, we need to have the choice whether to discard or pay the quanta to revive, and that gets too complicated and click heavy.

[hyoniin]

The recent thread about the card graveyard idea was neither for nor against in its general consensus.  there were about three for and three against.  I personally being one against it.  I am still against it until someone can provide a viable reason for its introduction, but I just feel as if it doesn't quite fit with the elements theme.  However, if you (whoever is reading this) are interested in pursuing this idea further you should check our the other post in the game suggestion and feedback thread and look at Kael Hate's modification to the graveyard idea.  I feel that would be much more in line with a lot of the card mechanics already in place in elements.  Got to go off to work now but I should be back on later or tomorrow and post more if it is needed or if anyone should desire that I expound or clarify something in my post.

[Lanidrak]

I am well aware of the discussion regarding a graveyard mechanic being involved in the game.

This thread was initially for the Classification of creatures. So, i'll edit it accordingly.

[hyoniin]

Cool, had some spare time between places so figured I would check.  Graveyard idea aside, I think that creature classification could provide some interesting element spanning competitions in the future.  As far as the undead example is concerned I would probably consider vamps as undead classification.  I someone wanted to explore other classifications that might involve cards in multiple elemental groups I think that it could provide some fun.  I don't know that it would be necessarily all that beneficial to the game in and of itself as once again I feel that "effects" that are classification and not element based is at odds with the current game set up.  Not to say that I am against change but I just think that some changes should only be introduced if they are going to be providing an obvious benefit to the game.

lol, btw, I never said you weren't aware of it.  I was just pointing out that your claim that the general consensus was for the introduction of a graveyard concept was a misconception.  Facts play a much smaller role than how they are presented does and as such I try to ensure that the presentation of ideas is given in as unbiased an environment as possible.

[Kael Hate]

Some of this stuff can work in hidden ways but not as player controlled ways.
Like the Beastmaster boosting some creatures.

Anything that affects the Database Schema is a bad idea by default as it takes an extreme amount of work to implement.

Like to see what else you have to add to this even tho I may not agree with it as a whole.

[Lanidrak]

Anything that affects the Database Schema is a bad idea by default as it takes an extreme amount of work to implement.

See my analogy about building a house.

It will be a lot easier to implement this now, than to try to implement it 6 months down the line when there are a lot more cards which need to be assigned Classifications...

Just as it is a lot easier to build strong foundations first, than to build a 6 story house, and then improve the foundations...

Some of this stuff can work in hidden ways but not as player controlled ways.
Like the Beastmaster boosting some creatures.

Then you have the problem of how to effectively describe to the player what creatures the Beastmaster affects. I don't want it to be "All creatures gain +1/+1." And, you cannot list all the creatures which are considered to be "Beasts" on one card. There is simply not enough space.

But, if each card had one or two words added to it, and a new field in the database was created to accommodate for this. 1) The cards can show more information and 2) It opens up near to infinite strategic possibilities.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd60583/Antlion.jpeg)

There is ample space in that red rectangle to contain what I think is the longest classification:

Flying Undead Beast.

So, this creature gains all bonuses and penalties for being a) Flying, b) Undead and c) a Beast.

Like to see what else you have to add to this even tho I may not agree with it as a whole.

The possibilities are endless. Due to the stacking nature of Classifications, we really have just opened up a myriad of doors into a labyrinth of new idea's and strategies.

Some examples of overlapping:
A Bone Dragon has a classification of "Undead Dragon"
A Wyrm is considered to be a "Flying Beast"
A Skeleton is a "Undead Skeleton"

a Dragon Lord, which adds +2/+2 to all your Dragons in play.
a Beast Master, which "reduces the cost" of all "Beasts" by 1 quanta. (Don't flame this one, it's an example)
a Necromancer, which adds +1/+2 to all "Undead" creatures in play.
a Dark Ritual card, which adds the classification "Undead" to a target creature.
a Spiders Nest permanent, which creates a random "Spider" every turn.

Some more idea's for you,

a Grounding spell which removes Flying from all creatures in play.
A Holy Exorcism which removes Undead and Poison from a target creature.
A Skeleton Captain which adds +1/+1 (stacking) to all Skeletons in play.
A weapon which does N damage, where N is the number of Golems in play.

Some new classifications:

Mutant - any creature that has been targeted by Improved Mutate or Mutate.
Note: Abominations now become Mutant Beasts.

Werebeast - a new classification, specifically for Lycanthropes (or new creatures which operate similarly)
Example: Were Rat, cost 1 , ability 1 - Gain +4/+4

Sorcerer - a new classification, maybe for specific and specialist creatures:
Note: Mindflayers and Fallen Elves will be considered Sorcerers.

Some new idea's using the new classifications

an Alchemical Perfection spell-card which causes all Mutants abilities to cost your Mark quanta.

a Lunar Cycle card which
 1) doubles the attack/defence of Werebeasts,
 2) halves the attack/defence of Werebeasts

a Magicians Ward, shield card, which adds +0/+3 to all your Sorcerers and protects you from spell effects.
a Mageslayer creature card, which gives -2/-1 (stacking) to all Sorcerers in play.


Your thoughts
 

[mafidufa]

An idea for the Undead classification: Playing reverse time on any Undead gives you another creature. This is already in-game with Mummy -> Pharaoh. It could be extended with Bone Dragon->Emerald Dragon, Vampire->Flesh Spider and Skeleton->??? I'm not too sure what a Skeleton should turn into at the moment.

Other types of creature control could also have special effects according to classification like Lightning could do double damage against flying creatures and so on.

[midg3333]

I'm not really sure how you would balance the whole creature classification thing... If you have cards that give bonuses to a certain creature type, you can make a deck based around that creature type, therefore enabling you to utilize that cards effect in every game. On the other hand, if you make a card that's only really good against a certain creature type, it can't often be used to its full potential. A great example of this is nightfall compared to holy light. Most/many darkness decks have nightfall/eclipse in them. This is because it is a great advantage to have a bonus to attack and defence for all your creatures. Holy light/flash is barely ever used. It can be used to heal you for 10 hp (but honestly, you could use something like heal or SoG instead in most cases), heal a creature for 10hp (which isn't that useful either because it is only effective if your creature was targeted by a damage spell and not killed that turn, and even then it's only good if they draw something later that would otherwise kill your creature), or it can be used to deal 10 damage to a death/darkness creature. Sure, dealing 10 damage is great...but that's only good if you're fighting a death or darkness deck. This is why you see nightfall so uch more often that holy light. Oh and if you add some good advantage to every creature type, while you may think it makes it balanced, it pretty much just means that most decks will have to focus on a certain creature type to be good.

On the other hand, if you can find a way to make it balanced it could potentially be really cool.

[Lanidrak]

The point about balancing is that it takes a lot of play testing.

Elements is still in it's early stages, sure we have the game and it seems to work nicely - but it is far from polished. The key to balancing these ideas is to implement them one at a time with a couple cards demonstrating how the Classification works - and then to test these cards and nerf them accordingly. Then to implement new cards...

For example, we can start by giving just two classifications to a few creatures... Maybe Beast and Undead Skeletons. This in turn will affect about 30% of creature cards. You then implement 3 or 4 new cards.
1) Skeleton Captain (+1/+1 to your skeletons in play) stacking
2) Beastmaster (all Beasts cost less quanta to play) stacking
3) Excorcism (removes Undead from up to 3 random creatures)
4) Necromancy (add Undead classification to a target creatuer)
5) Lich King (gains +2/+1 for ever Undead creature in play)
6) Then you add a new rule such as "Undead Creatures are immune to Poison" but take extra damage from "Fire"

Then you implement say 2 out of 6 of those, then a further 2, then all of them at once and balance them as you go.

These are just idea's. A lot of the balancing can be done in the forums before these idea's are even considered for implementation.

[Scaredgirl]

Elements is still in it's early stages, sure we have the game and it seems to work nicely - but it is far from polished.

I have to strongly disagree with that. I think Elements was surprisingly polished 3 months after launch, let alone now after one year. Why do you think Elements is "far from polished"? What aspects of it would need polishing?

Sure people complain about stuff like game balance but I've never played an online game where people weren't complaining about balance. The truth is that there are no instant win decks or cards, and the current game balance is pretty damn good.

What you suggest on this thread is a pretty good idea that has been used in many popular CCG's. However in Elements it would pretty much mean redesigning of the core of the game. I personally think that instead of "fixing" the core of the game, Elements simply needs more cards and more content (which is what we've been getting lately). There's no point in spending 100+ hours fixing something that isn't broken.