Card Packs In the Bazar

[OdinVanguard]

This topic was discussed before in '09 (Kudos to Pineapple! for finding the thread ) :

For reference~ http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17

The game has changed a fair amount since then, so maybe its worth bringing up again (new Arena system, a few new cards available, etc.)

One of the really fun things to do in most trading card games is to buy booster packs. Theres a bit of a thrill / excitement in seeing what new cards you will get. As the pool of available cards in the bazar grows, this could be a really cool idea.
The booster packs would be bought with electrum and would contain an assortment of randomly chosen cards, most of them commons.
Each would have a chance of giving the player a rare or maybe even upgraded card.
They could be ordered in electrum prices based on the chance / quality of rare card(s) being gained and also on total number of cards given.
E.g.

• Bronze Pack - 5 cards, max 1 rare - 10% chance of an AI rare (weapons, miracle, etc), .01% chance of a nymph, .01% chance of a shard
• Silver Pack - 8 cards, max 1 rare - 15% chance of an AI rare, .05% chance of nymph, .05% chance of nymph, .05% chance of shard
• Gold Pack - 10 cards, 10% chance of 1 card being upped, max 2 rares (1 guaranteed 2nd is a %chance) - 20% chance AI rare, .1% chance of nymph, .1% chance of shard
• Platinum Pack - 11 unupped cards, 1 upped card, max 2 rares (1 guaranteed 2nd is a %chance)- 25% chance AI rare, .5% chance of nymph, .5% chance of shard

For Gold and platinum, the guaranteed rare would be an AI rare mostly, but would have a small chance (.1% for gold, .5% for platinum) of being a shard or nymph.
Not sure what the price ranges would be, but as a start:
-bronze packs should be inexpensive enough that beginners can afford them to help expand their deck (e.g. should not cost less than buying 4 to 5 of the most expensive cards in bazar)
-platinum packs should be at least as expensive as "buying" and upgrading an ultra rare (like a shard or nymph)
(the prices for rares and ultra rares could be calculated based on bazar sell price)

[Drake_XIV]

Very interesting, they could also be organized by element for a little extra.  Increases the chances of what you want.

[Calindu]

I like this idea, though it needs better balancing:

• Bronze pack: 5 cards, 0 upgraded cards 1  rare assured(78% weapon, 7% Squid, 7% Pharaoh, 7% Miracle, 0.75% Shard, 0.25% Nymph) Each other card has a 1% chance to be a rare too.- Price dunno, maybe 600 electrum?
• Silver pack: 7 cards, 1 upgraded card, 1 unupped rare assured(78% weapon, 6.5% Squid, 6.5% Pharaoh, 6.5% Miracle, 2% Shard, 0.5% Nymph) Each other card has a 2.5% chance to be a rare too.- Price dunno, maybe 2000 electrum?
• Gold Pack: 10 cards, 4 upgraded cards, 2 unupped rares assured(72% weapon, 6% Squid, 6% Pharaoh, 6% Miracle, 9% Shard, 1% Nymph) Each other card has a 5% chance to be a rare too.- Price dunno, maybe 6500 electrum?
• Platinum pack: 15 cards, 10 upgraded cards, 4 unupped rares assured(66% weapon, 5.5% Squid, 5.5% Pharaoh, 5.5% Miracle, 15% Shard, 2.5% Nymph)- Price dunno, maybe 20000 electrum?

[OdinVanguard]

I like this idea, though it needs better balancing:

• Bronze pack: 5 cards, 0 upgraded cards 1  rare assured(78% weapon, 7% Squid, 7% Pharaoh, 7% Miracle, 0.75% Shard, 0.25% Nymph) Each other card has a 1% chance to be a rare too.- Price dunno, maybe 600 electrum?
• Silver pack: 7 cards, 1 upgraded card, 1 unupped rare assured(78% weapon, 6.5% Squid, 6.5% Pharaoh, 6.5% Miracle, 2% Shard, 0.5% Nymph) Each other card has a 2.5% chance to be a rare too.- Price dunno, maybe 2000 electrum?
• Gold Pack: 10 cards, 4 upgraded cards, 2 unupped rares assured(72% weapon, 6% Squid, 6% Pharaoh, 6% Miracle, 9% Shard, 1% Nymph) Each other card has a 5% chance to be a rare too.- Price dunno, maybe 6500 electrum?
• Platinum pack: 15 cards, 10 upgraded cards, 4 unupped rares assured(66% weapon, 5.5% Squid, 5.5% Pharaoh, 5.5% Miracle, 15% Shard, 2.5% Nymph)- Price dunno, maybe 20000 electrum?

Sounds fairly reasonable. My first post was just there to give a rough outline of the idea. If people like this, balancing cost and %s will need some definite attention... Also, the chance for nymphs and probably shards as well, needs to stay very very low to preserve rarity. 15% might be too high... let me hit mathematica to see if I can get a scale worked out.
Ok, got it now. Here is the break down:
In the table below, ExVal is the expected amount of  a player would have to pay on average to get a card (shard or nymph)...
At the very least, the %chance to win needs to be equal as the cost of a pack rises (it should probably improve - i.e. get lower, as cost rises)...
You can calculate the expected value of a shard as:
Eval = $pack / %WinAtLeast1 = $pack / (1-%WinNone) = $pack / (1-(1-%listed)^#rares) ...(the ^ means exponent)
(although with very low %s and #rares, you can just use $pack/%listed)
This gives:

It looks like the % for nymphs and shards on silver packs is a little to low compared to bronze packs. The % on shards for gold packs should probably be lowered as well.

I would suggest changing to:
   -Bronze pack - .04% shard, .03% nymph
   -Gold Pack - 8% shard, 1% nymph
which gives:

Lastly, the guaranteed rare should probably not be part of the bronze pack, or else you will make it too easy to get them... maybe just up the %chance for getting a rare from one of the cards instead.
Setting the chance for a card to be rare to 12% would mean an average of .6 rare cards in a bronze pack, which is roughly half of the 1.175 average rares for a silve pack (keeping with your trend of roughly doubling the number of rares per pack)
...Although my instinct says we should probably reduce this across the board in order to "keep rares rare"

[pikachufan2164]

Remember, Zanz wants Nymphs to be ungrindable. Therefore, they can't appear in the packs at all.

[dragonsdemesne]

Remember, Zanz wants Nymphs to be ungrindable. Therefore, they can't appear in the packs at all.

Yeah, I remember having this debate with him before, and he got a bit mad at me when I suggested nymphs should be obtainable in other ways, so I don't think it's going to happen.  However, there is no reason Zanz couldn't create an entirely new series of 12 cards that could take the place of nymphs in your proposed booster idea.  (well, no reason besides Zanz's limited time schedule, anyway)  For instance, there could be an ultra-rare shield set, or maybe a new type of creature on par in power with nymphs, (demons, faeries, whatever)

[Pineapple]

For reference~ http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17

[Junkers]

I like this idea - already pretty much have everything 6x, but it would've been fun while I was building up my card collection.

[OdinVanguard]

In the thread pineapple posted, they mentioned introducing booster exclusives...
That may not be a bad idea, though I think instead of purely "exclusive" just make them rares that don't get put in the Bazar or won off of high end areas (some combination of HB, FG, Arena, and / or PvP)
These boosters could also make good rewards (e.g. for tournaments, and new questlines, special achievement rewards, etc.)

One person in the earlier thread also mentioned the difficult economy... I think this may have changed a bit, now that there is an arena system in place. Arena grinding gives a way to make much more quickly than the old T50 since it's reward - cost ratio is much higher (with the exception of Bronze league at least) than AI's and it doesn't make for a zero sum setting like the higher paying PvP (where someone has to lose for another to gain).

[Ajit]

I personally love the idea.  Most anything that expands the collecting aspect of the game I enjoy, and booster packs are very fun.  Purely grinding just simply isn't fun, but at the same time we need to reward those who play more.  I think the details needs tweaking;

I don't see why the boosters really need to have an increasing number of cards from version to version, just make 3-4 different levels like what you already have (bronze, silver, gold, plat).  I'd make the number in each booster the same, just make the odds for upped and rare cards better the higher you go.  Of course, the number of cards for now would have to be quite low considering the small pool of cards.  I'd honestly say no more than 3 or 4.  We could introduce new cards this way or whatever, in booster packs based around the new cards (nothing novel here).

Anyways here was my take on it!
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,43036.0.html

[furballdn]

Buying nymps-no.
Buying rares-eh...

The idea is great (Your art is also great Ajit), but the thing is, EtG has such a small card base, there are only 3 rarities of cards, can buy from bazaar, can't buy from bazaar, ultra rare. While this might be a good idea for newbies (oh boy! Random cards!) it doesn't really serve much since nearly all cards can just be bought from the bazaar. Also, that expensive? No newbie would pay 600, and no experienced player would either.

[Ajit]

Buying nymps-no.
Buying rares-eh...

The idea is great (Your art is also great Ajit), but the thing is, EtG has such a small card base, there are only 3 rarities of cards, can buy from bazaar, can't buy from bazaar, ultra rare. While this might be a good idea for newbies (oh boy! Random cards!) it doesn't really serve much since nearly all cards can just be bought from the bazaar. Also, that expensive? No newbie would pay 600, and no experienced player would either.

Just hoppin' in, I too am not sold on the practicality of this, but what if the Bazaar was significantly reduced?  Say only half or less the current size.  Then, as you acquire new cards from booster packs, they'd become available at the bazzar?