Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Game Suggestions and Feedback => Topic started by: ColorlessGreen on November 11, 2013, 10:17:22 pm
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A feature should be added that would allow someone to spend (for example) 2k electrum in order to purchase a reward code for 1k electrum, or to spend two shards in order to purchase a reward code for one shard. Exact values are certainly up for debate, but the cost to purchase the code should exceed the value of the code in order to mitigate any silly giving-codes-to-your-alts exploits. This should not apply to ultra-rares (though I suppose it could if balanced correctly) in order to maintain their rarity.
The purpose of this would be to facilitate people running their own unofficial tournaments upon demand, as well as possibly giving help to friends or rewarding people with in-game bonuses for, well, anything you want to reward someone for.
I don't see how this could really be exploited in any realistic way if the cost to buy the code is substantially higher than the value of the code, but it could allow for a lot of very interesting dynamics and ad hoc tournaments without requiring intervention from staff.
edit: I realize this gets pretty close to trading, but since there would hopefully be a very high transaction fee, I don't believe it would run into the problems that trading creates.
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I 100% support your idea. I am myself an organizer of unofficial asynchronous tourney, and a reward is... I am ashemed now... farms :( It is because I have nothing better to offer :( I have tons of shards and I could even spend 5 shards for a code for one shard. Also new motivation to grind which is not problem for me.
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This discussion has been had a billion times before. Won't happen.
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This discussion has been had a billion times before. Won't happen.
If this particular one has been had before, I apologize for the repeat, but I haven't seen this particular one before. I've seen lots of discussions about trading and other such things, and one of the big philosophical arguments against them is there is no way to do it that isn't either exploity or worse than just using the bazaar.
This idea is worse than using the bazaar. My hope is to have something where it is completely impossible for the person giving things away to benefit in any way from the transaction. There is not supposed to be any exchange going on between two players - I'm looking for a way to have a one-sided ability to provide a prize to participants in unofficial tournaments or other such things. At least, I'm looking for a way to have that happen without people having to resort to quasi-legal farms and such, which is the current state of affairs.
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A player could make several Alt Accts and in theory funnel cards they need into one Acct...
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A player could make several Alt Accts and in theory funnel cards they need into one Acct...
True, but it's so much more efficient grinding one level 60 account rather than 4 level 15 accounts.
Idea supported.
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I don't think this would be a problem for rares, since they are not that hard to obtain by normal means and it is actually less efficient to try to exploit this system than regularly farming for the cards (if the prices are set up as CG suggested). Actually, the most efficient way of getting rares is to ask a friend that has them to put up a farm for you.
Ultra-rares, particularly nymphs, could be a problem because of the oracle and because of people that give up the game and handle their account to someone else (this could allow for a limited merge of the 2 accounts). Excluding them shouldn't be a problem, since I don't think many players are willing to give up their nymphs/marks to create reward codes for other people, if they still play the game regularly.
So there is no reason for not having this, as long as you exclude nymphs and marks.
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Agreed. While similar ideas have been suggested, this one makes sense, allows for more widespread community growth, and is very capable of expanding the community to other groups in other sites without making them sign up here to make their own tourneys. In fact, I already have some places I could use this to bait new players to playing this with me…
This gets my 100% approval if implemented correctly.
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A player could make several Alt Accts and in theory funnel cards they need into one Acct...
True, but it's so much more efficient grinding one level 60 account rather than 4 level 15 accounts.
Idea supported.
Yeah, part of setting a high transaction fee is preventing this. Setting a relatively high minimum (i.e. 2k elec for a 1k code or even higher) would prevent people from being able to abuse quest rewards or something. Also implementing a minimum score of 20k or something like that could severely cut back on the effectiveness of alts. It is much easier to grind 1k electrum on an account that has a good grinding deck than to grind 2k on a new account (even counting quest rewards and oracle and whatnot).
In order to prevent people trading two spare lobotomizers for one shard of whateverthey'remissing, it could even be set up such that you need to actually spend the specific rares themselves to get a rare-specific reward code (meaning it would cost 2 SoFos in order to get a reward code providing one SoFo, and not having there be whatever-rare-you-want codes). As I said originally, I don't think it's worth it to try to make this sort of thing apply to ultrarares at all, since that opens the door for much more exploity behavior, and would have much less actual legitimate use.
Preventing exploits is just a matter of setting the prices such that the time investment of getting a reward code is substantially higher than the time investment of just grinding the stuff out legitimately.
edit: I suppose the only thing I can think of that I haven't addressed directly is people spinning rare weapons from oracle on a bunch of alts and funneling them to a main. (a) this is so much more complicated than just farming bronze for a bit, (b) in most cases you don't actually need more than a few copies of most of the rare weapons, so there's less incentive for weapons than for shards, (c) requiring matched pairs/sets goes a long ways to mitigating this since you have to get some pretty impressive RNG, (d) requiring a minimum score goes a really long ways to prevent this since you'd have to put a lot of effort into an alt in order to make them able to do it.
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I guess it won't happen ever anyway, so probably it is an academic discussion. Or not?
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G you should send him an email ;)
maybe we'll finally get new foil cards approved as well ...
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I guess it won't happen ever anyway, so probably it is an academic discussion. Or not?
Stay positive. That's the only way things ever get done around here. ;D
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well there is 1 little thing that you haven't thought of. People with lots of rares and score could simply give away loads of electrum and rares, for example several people got over 1M electrum they don't have any use for. This means we coudl end up with noobs that got 100K electrum and all rares, making bronze extremely hard etc etc.
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well there is 1 little thing that you haven't thought of. People with lots of rares and score could simply give away loads of electrum and rares, for example several people got over 1M electrum they don't have any use for. This means we coudl end up with noobs that got 100K electrum and all rares, making bronze extremely hard etc etc.
I did think of that and basically just don't care. We already have that - there are plenty of alts in bronze already with a ridiculous amount of wealth. Additionally, FG grinding with low win rate stuff like firecell already creates situations where new accounts have high wealth but low score. Those looking to give away wealth can already just set up pvp farms in the communities where it's allowed.
All people need to do to have high powered bronze accounts is to burn score off when they level up out of bronze. This is already happening (and has been happening for years) and hasn't destroyed bronze. In my personal experience it's generally less of a good idea to spend your limited skill points in bronze on upped cards than on HP, which is why you don't generally see a bunch of upped decks in bronze.
The only bar we really need to cross on this is "less exploitable than pvp farms" in order to guarantee we don't negatively impact arenas, metas, etc. by providing some new exploit to the people looking to exploit.
As a side conversation: is there any system that you (or anyone else) can think of that would allow people the ability to provide prizes for unofficial tournaments/etc that would be less exploitable than this? There is great value in providing such an ability, and not providing that ability encourages people who want to do such a thing to not participate in this community and instead go to places where pvp farming is accepted.
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Outside of tournament organisation or similar games, there`s no good reason to pay 2k for 1k. Instead it could lead to the problem that players come, get a good account with a super platinum /FG deck, play, and sell their reward codes to players, which are willing to pay for that.
Another problem: Good players use reward codes to feed their bronze alt account to be "the big fish in a small pond".
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Instead it could lead to the problem that players come, get a good account with a super platinum /FG deck, play, and sell their reward codes to players, which are willing to pay for that.
That's obviously something ban worthy. For the other problem, consider that it is currently possible to set a farm for yourself (use 2 tabs with different accounts), get all rares and after that sell the cards in the bronze-alt. Once you got a good farmer deck in the alt it is just faster to use it.
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Instead it could lead to the problem that players come, get a good account with a super platinum /FG deck, play, and sell their reward codes to players, which are willing to pay for that.
That's obviously something ban worthy. For the other problem, consider that it is currently possible to set a farm for yourself (use 2 tabs with different accounts), get all rares and after that sell the cards in the bronze-alt. Once you got a good farmer deck in the alt it is just faster to use it.
ummm tell me the point of having a bronze alt again? Other than for fun?
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Instead it could lead to the problem that players come, get a good account with a super platinum /FG deck, play, and sell their reward codes to players, which are willing to pay for that.
That's obviously something ban worthy. For the other problem, consider that it is currently possible to set a farm for yourself (use 2 tabs with different accounts), get all rares and after that sell the cards in the bronze-alt. Once you got a good farmer deck in the alt it is just faster to use it.
ummm tell me the point of having a bronze alt again? Other than for fun?
To infuriate noobs in bronze with no rares yet ;] Pure evil, buhahaha
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Perhaps a code that gave a random rare/shard that is not specified until redeemed. For instance, one could trade 2 shards for a random shard code to use as an event award. This might avoid purposeful "trading" and lend itself to be used for awards.
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Perhaps a code that gave a random rare/shard that is not specified until redeemed. For instance, one could trade 2 shards for a random shard code to use as an event award. This might avoid purposeful "trading" and lend itself to be used for awards.
Even electrum code would be enough for me, like 2K for 1K electrum code.
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I really like the idea that you can trade shards/weps for a random code.
Ppl who create inoffical tournaments then have something to offer.
I would restrict it to unupped cards and set the cost up to 10 cards.
10 unupped weps generate 1 random wep reward code and same with shards.
This way it should be faster to farm bronze unupped than abusing this system.
And ppl think twice before they convert a upgraded card (selling income of the 10 rares is around 1500) into a random reward code.
IMAO such a feature will let the community and the number of inofficial PvP events grow.
More fun for everyone and more possible donators for Zanz.
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This would certainly be new motivation for me to grind :)
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I like the idea and do not see a problem - but it should not be possible for rares.
The price could also be rather high to be totally sure that there would not be any abuse. I would be fine with paying 10k for a 1k reward code.
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well there is 1 little thing that you haven't thought of. People with lots of rares and score could simply give away loads of electrum and rares, for example several people got over 1M electrum they don't have any use for. This means we coudl end up with noobs that got 100K electrum and all rares, making bronze extremely hard etc etc.
I did think of that and basically just don't care.
Why not limiting the ability to get a reward code to once a week per account? If you would need more reward codes per week because of inofficial tournaments, you could still use alts. But you wouldn't be able to give a noob 100 000 :electrum or 6 of a shard in a moment just because he asked for it.
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well there is 1 little thing that you haven't thought of. People with lots of rares and score could simply give away loads of electrum and rares, for example several people got over 1M electrum they don't have any use for. This means we coudl end up with noobs that got 100K electrum and all rares, making bronze extremely hard etc etc.
I did think of that and basically just don't care.
Why not limiting the ability to get a reward code to once a week per account? If you would need more reward codes per week because of inofficial tournaments, you could still use alts. But you wouldn't be able to give a noob 100 000 :electrum or 6 of a shard in a moment just because he asked for it.
Time limited uses is a great idea. As with everything, the specific numbers are certainly debatable, but I think it's a great idea as its base. As far as the specific numbers go, I'd probably do something more like 6 codes/week (at least depending on what the value of the codes settles on) allowing people who wanted to do so to run a weekly tournament with 3/2/1 prizes. However, don't really care about the exact levels when it comes down to it - whatever people think is balanced is good enough for me.
ummm tell me the point of having a bronze alt again? Other than for fun?
Just fun. Some people quite like submitting arena decks, and alts are the only way to submit to the lower leagues once you've leveled past them, and the lower leagues are (imo) more fun to submit to.
Also, I have played a lot of the lower leagues and I really don't see an existing problem with people trying to create overpowered accounts to screw over all the newbies or whatever, and as has been pointed out a number of times, there's already far easier ways to do that than this if someone were so inclined. Besides, if someone really wants to make life difficult for the newbies in bronze, you don't need either rares or money to submit mono aether, ghostmare, etc.
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Why would anyone spend 2K coins for a 1K electrum code? To give that code to other players? I approve of the rares thing, a lot harder to get. And you cant just create a new account do quests get code put code into another account. With the 2 rares for 1 if you had 14 rares of one kind then did that it would be good to get other rares, or would it give the same exact rare? If so I disapprove cause it sounds silly.
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The purpose of this would be to facilitate people running their own unofficial tournaments upon demand, as well as possibly giving help to friends or rewarding people with in-game bonuses for, well, anything you want to reward someone for.
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The purpose of this would be to facilitate people running their own unofficial tournaments upon demand, as well as possibly giving help to friends or rewarding people with in-game bonuses for, well, anything you want to reward someone for.
My friend just so happens to be myself. -_- That was my point.