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Re: Some thoughts about fire. I need a more balanced game ! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29057.msg371314#msg371314
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2011, 06:41:16 pm »
many of you said : no problem, look other colors are strong, and against fire, you can have such permanent or such CC...
The point is that fire can easily remove permanents and creatures, so any defence against fire will be destroyed.
A pure :life can be easily locked, at least for enough turn to win, even a pure  :aether,
but how can I beat a pure fire deck, especially if he draw 2 cards per turn and has a triple mark ?? If he has enough
defrag and lances, with some "very difficult to remove" phoenixes, wow, it rocks, and I have no chance against him...

The only defence against rush are permanents (sundial/shields)
or mass control CC (a too slow in  :death, a random in  :entropy, and  a expensive in ... :fire).
But permanents will be destroyed against a fire rush, so it seems unfair to me...

And frankly, rush decks are not very fun to play, it's like :
- "i have a good start, i'll kill you !"
- "oh no, not enough [pillars/creatures/...], you beat me on turn 6 before I can get you".
I really like the game but if i wanted to play shi-fu-mi, I could go elsewhere :)


Offline Aves

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Re: Some thoughts about fire. I need a more balanced game ! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29057.msg371316#msg371316
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2011, 06:48:31 pm »
I see your point, and do admit that :fire is common rand has many of the abilities that a rainbow/trio/quartet can have.
But the element of fire doesn't have everything that a rainbow or a trio can have.

It has no healing. SoGs Point conceded here. I wasn't really thinking of SoGs, as they were :rainbow in my mind.
It can't slow down opponents (exploding towers isn't usually effective) like :time :aether :darkness :entropy Isn't killing creatures and destroying sundials/hourglasses/weapons slowing them down, making it take longer for them to defeat you? Ah, but not as devourers, reverse time, silence, and mutation can. How often is rain of fire used, especially in a mono-fire deck?
It can't produce copies of creatures, as :aether :life :time can.
It can't shut them down, like :darkness :entropy :gravity If you kill all the creatures in a creature-reliant deck, then you have shut the deck down. Point is that it depends on the deck you're facing.  Creature/Permanent Control=/=Denial If you shut down the quanta in a quanta reliant deck, then you have shut the deck down. All decks rely on quanta. You can't get around quint or creature spammers easily, but you can get around quanta producers. (black hole, devourers, discord)
It can't protect or heal its creatures. :light :life :earth :darkness :aether
It can't provide unblockable damage as :gravity :death :life (poison is unblockable, and purify isn't that common) bolt/lance Momentum/chimera and poison all get past all shields. Bolt spells dont.

This is only an incomplete list, but you get my point.
The point I'm making is that while fire has many things, it certainly doesn't have all things. But my point is that fire has many things, and, most would agree, most of the things that matter, while the other 11 elements don't have as many things and certainly not as much useful/versatile things. But Fire can and is often used as a mono. The other elements, less so. You won't find a good mono of an element without creature or permenant control, but that's what duos/trios do. Can you compare immortality and healing with having quick PC? Is having a large damage weapon any better than using bolts or poison? You can make a list for each element and point out its strengths and weaknesses, what abilities and qualities it has and doesn't have, but in the end I don't think any element is better than the others. And what if fire has many more strengths than other elements? By strength, I mean card usage/effects, and weaknesses can only be limited to individual decks.. Fire is basically the element of pure offense. It has high attack creatures. It destroys permanents with ease. That's why it's so powerful. But it really doesn't have any defense (SoGs aside). Fire shield, and fire in general, says 'I can take the attack, I don't care whether or not you hit me. I can hit you harder'

Edit: Wow. 3 new posts in the time it took for me to post this.
So... the gist of what I'm saying is that Fire is the offensively minded element. It's basically doing damage as fast as possible, (*cough* rush *cough*) with no regard to healing or defense. That's how it's supposed to work.
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Re: Some thoughts about fire. I need a more balanced game ! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29057.msg371318#msg371318
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2011, 06:52:20 pm »
I was unaware this was a cry against arena decks with double draw etc.  Mono fire in gold league and higher is a huge problem there, but hardly takes full advantage of the ways you can use card avantage to cripple your opponent.  Also ai is fairly fail when it comes to some of the more delicate decisions.  By far I'd say the worst :fire is fire stall for it's sheer annoying factor.  Is this my biggest match up fear in arena?  By no means. 

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Re: Some thoughts about fire. I need a more balanced game ! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29057.msg371336#msg371336
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2011, 07:27:25 pm »
Hey no mistake here I don't say that life suxx at all ! I just say that fire as a very nice arsenal and I think that the game is very well balanced.
I was just wondering and I really like your answer jmdt ;)
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