bonus electrum for longer games?

[ZephyrPhantom]

Do we want a minimum amount of turns that need to be passed before you start winning bonus  I think this needs to be decided, and how many turns min if so, before any further discussion is done.

I think we should find another method entirely, because all methods proposed here seem to just encourage :

a. Having decks that go to a certain turn
b. Stall decks.

In other words, we're not encouraging players to use variety. We're just telling them to use a different deck type.

[$$$man]

How bout this.

(Rush deck amount of turns(X)) - (Stall deck amount of turns(Y)) = Z

|Z| - 15 = bonus for taking more then X+Y/2 turns.

The two decks used for making will be USEM and any ai3 stall with a good win rate.

So:

7ish - 34ish = -27

27 - 15 = 12 bonus for taking more then 21 turns.

Sounds reasonable to me

Feel free to post any flaws.

[BluePriest]

The point is to allow players to use slower style decks, and still get a decent (but not as good as rush) amount of  So far, this doesnt seem to be a problem.

[ZephyrPhantom]

How bout this.

(Rush deck amount of turns(X)) - (Stall deck amount of turns(Y)) = Z

|Z| - 15 = bonus for taking more then X+Y/2 turns.

The two decks used for making will be USEM and any ai3 stall with a good win rate.

So:

7ish - 34ish = -27

27 - 15 = 12 bonus for taking more then 21 turns.

Sounds reasonable to me

Feel free to post any flaws.

This makes sense. That way people can still grind but have a choice to use other decks too. Just make sure +12  is applied after EM.

[QuantumT]

I don't really like that one. 21 turns is a really long time. I also don't like the idea of having a huge boost for 21 turns over 20.

For anyone who think that 1 per turn would lead to stall decks hasn't really done the math. Sure you can get over 100 in a single game, but you're still slowing yourself down. Lets compare stall with rush.

Stall: 100 turn EM = 40 (like now) + 100 (added bonus)=140
So stall makes 1.4 per turn

Rush: 7 turn = 20 (use 20 for combo of EMs and no EMs) + 7 (bonus)=27
Rush makes ~4 per turn

And this doesn't even take into account that rush will get 36+ spins for cards in the same times that stall gets 3.

I fail to see the problem.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I don't really like that one. 21 turns is a really long time. I also don't like the idea of having a huge boost for 21 turns over 20.

For anyone who think that 1 per turn would lead to stall decks hasn't really done the math. Sure you can get over 100 in a single game, but you're still slowing yourself down. Lets compare stall with rush.

Stall: 100 turn EM = 40 (like now) + 100 (added bonus)=140
So stall makes 1.4 per turn

Rush: 7 turn = 20 (use 20 for combo of EMs and no EMs) + 7 (bonus)=27
Rush makes ~4 per turn

And this doesn't even take into account that rush will get 36+ spins for cards in the same times that stall gets 3.

I fail to see the problem.

Advent of stall decks.

[QuantumT]

4>1.4 just FYI.

[ZephyrPhantom]

4>1.4 just FYI.

True, but people when seeing the basic formula without any elaboration (like provided here) will think "OMG! I get much more electrum if I stall!"

 I can understand that rushes are still effective, I'm just not sure if newer players will.

[QuantumT]

4>1.4 just FYI.

True, but people when seeing the basic formula without any elaboration (like provided here) will think "OMG! I get much more electrum if I stall!"

 I can understand that rushes are still effective, I'm just not sure if newer players will.

Maybe, but anyone will recognize the not getting spins part. I also don't know have much effort needs to be put into accommodating people that can't do basic math.

[Essence]

note: I didn't read the thread.  Just offhand thoughts.

There's a distinct progression through the various levels of AI.  Level 0, you just play cards.  Level 1, you play a mono deck.  Level 2, you play a mono deck with strong attack.  Level 3, you rush your socks off. 

All of this is a smoothly-building progression.  Then, you hit t50.  t50, you can rush your socks off and do OK, but you actually do a little better (IMX, of course, YMMV) playing a deck with a little bit (sometimes even 'moderate amounts') of control in it.  Then, against halfbloods, you generally need quite a bit more control in order to win (at least unupped).  Then, you get to FGs, where taking control of the game early and hard is vital.

Same basic progression, but control requires more skill than rushing, so you do it against tougher opponents.


From that perspective, the game doesn't need bonus electrum for longer games, it just needs more upper-end players participating in the Buff/Nerf discussions. 8)

[ratcharmer]

Okay, EVERYONE, seriously . . .

It's fairly pointless to sit here debating over if there should be bonuses/how much should they be etc. without any actual data on how fast which deck makes electrum.

I'm starting a new topic (link: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18648.new.html#new ) to work out how fast different decks make money. If anyone wants to help with that by testing decks I'd be very grateful.

[BluePriest]

 /turns is all that really matters. The rest will pretty much go along with it.
EPT/EPG= per turn/game
Real Quick 10 games:

14/9
17/6
40/4
18/7
19/5
17/6
18/4
18/5
18/7
18/6
197/59=3.33 EPT
197/10=19.7 EPG

As long as the EPT bonus is 3 or less then you will be fine. A whole bunch of detailed statistics arent really necessary. And that is if you have a set time when you start getting the bonus  If you start getting it from the beginning, then this is how the games would have turned out.

59*3=177
177+197=374
374/59=6.33 EPT
374/10=37.4 EPG

Now, lets say you have a 20 turn battle.
Before the bonus on avg you will have gotten 19.7 (20 if rounded)  for the battle.  Then you have 60 bonus  . Your total will be 80  for that game. Since the EPG of a rush deck is about 37.4, and you can do at least 3 games with the avg rush deck in the time it takes to do 20 turns, you could have gotten 37.4*3=112

112-80=32 difference in 

So even getting 3  a game it would still be better to use a rush deck, and Im not even including spins right now. So you would also get 6 MORE spins, potentially getting a couple more nmew cards, and the bonuses for getting doubles. If you think that gap is still too small though, then you could even lower it to 2.5 EPT rounded up at the end.

I know 10 games isnt a good example to find out EPT/EPG but I dont feel like doing a whole bunch right now. Im really just trying to make a point.