bonus electrum for longer games?

[icecoldbro]

if this actually gets something passed , time to whip out my PA'd dissipation field 60 card stall

[ratcharmer]

This would be a brilliant addition. If this happens, I see loads of Stall decks and loads of decks with Deflagration/Steal coming.

And rush decks would die out. 

if this actually gets something passed , time to whip out my PA'd dissipation field 60 card stall

So everyone will build Mr Sexington's Ragequit Deck and piss everyone else off until everyone plays with stalling decks? Is that the answer? I don't think so.

Okay, it looks like a lot of people are hugely misinterpreting this.

Yes, if we make it so you get an additional +eleventy billion for a game over 20 turns, it would dramatically change game balance and everyone would play stall decks. That's why the additional reward shouldn't be that much.

As I said before, the idea is not to make stall decks suddenly better grinders than rush decks, but to give other deck types just enough of a boost to be at least viable for grinding, though still not ideal.

Many people seem to be considering only the most extreme case of implementing this suggestion, to which I respond:

ANY change to the game will be destructive to balance if implemented poorly.

To some extent, I agree with those critical of the idea, but all it means is that there needs to be careful consideration put into how much the rewards should be, not that they shouldn't exist at all.

[grindpower]

This would be a brilliant addition. If this happens, I see loads of Stall decks and loads of decks with Deflagration/Steal coming.

And rush decks would die out. 

if this actually gets something passed , time to whip out my PA'd dissipation field 60 card stall

So everyone will build Mr Sexington's Ragequit Deck and piss everyone else off until everyone plays with stalling decks? Is that the answer? I don't think so.

Okay, it looks like a lot of people are hugely misinterpreting this.

Yes, if we make it so you get an additional +eleventy billion for a game over 20 turns, it would dramatically change game balance and everyone would play stall decks. That's why the additional reward shouldn't be that much.

As I said before, the idea is not to make stall decks suddenly better grinders than rush decks, but to give other deck types just enough of a boost to be at least viable for grinding, though still not ideal.

Many people seem to be considering only the most extreme case of implementing this suggestion, to which I respond:

ANY change to the game will be destructive to balance if implemented poorly.

To some extent, I agree with those critical of the idea, but all it means is that there needs to be careful consideration put into how much the rewards should be, not that they shouldn't exist at all.

Perhaps it could be that you gain 1 or 2 electrum each turn the game lasts?

Turn1: 1 bonus electrum
Turn2: 2 bonus electrum
Turn3: 4 bonus electrum
Turn4: 6 bonus electrum
Turn5: 8 bonus electrum
Turn6: 9 bonus electrum
Turn7: 10 bonus electrum
Turn8: 11 bonus electrum
Turn9: 13 bonus electrum
Turn10: 15 bonus electrum
Turn11: 16 bonus electrum
Turn12: 17 bonus electrum
Turn13: 19 bonus electrum
Turn14: 21 bonus electrum
Turn15: 23 bonus electrum
Turn16: 24 bonus electrum
Turn17: 25 bonus electrum
Turn18: 26 bonus electrum
Turn19: 28 bonus electrum
Turn20: 30 bonus electrum
Turn21: 31 bonus electrum
Turn22: 32 bonus electrum
Turn23: 34 bonus electrum
Turn24: 36 bonus electrum
Turn25: 38 bonus electrum
Turn26: 39 bonus electrum
Turn27: 40 bonus electrum
Turn28: 41 bonus electrum
Turn29: 43 bonus electrum
Turn30: 45 bonus electrum
Turn31: 46 bonus electrum
Turn32: 47 bonus electrum
Turn33: 49 bonus electrum
Turn34: 51 bonus electrum
Turn35: 53 bonus electrum
Turn36: 54 bonus electrum
Turn37: 55 bonus electrum
Turn38: 56 bonus electrum
Turn39: 58 bonus electrum
Turn40: 60 bonus electrum
Turn41: 61 bonus electrum.
Turn42: 62 bonus electrum
Turn43: 64 bonus electrum
Turn44: 66 bonus electrum
Turn45: 68 bonus electrum
Turn46: 69 bonus electrum
Turn47: 70 bonus electrum
Turn48: 71 bonus electrum
Turn49: 73 bonus electrum
Turn50: 75 bonus electrum
Turn51: 76 bonus electrum
Turn52: 77 bonus electrum
Turn53: 79 bonus electrum
Turn54: 81 bonus electrum
Turn55: 83 bonus electrum
Turn56: 84 bonus electrum
Turn57: 85 bonus electrum
Turn58: 86 bonus electrum
Turn59: 88 bonus electrum
Turn60: 90 bonus electrum
Turn61+: 100 bonus electrum

Doubled if Elemental Mastery perhaps? I said Turn61+ because there are many ways that a match could go on forever...

Most Rush Decks finish around Turn7 so this gives stall decks more electrum. I know it may seem a bit much... Anyway I don't have much to do with my time so I did that...

[ZephyrPhantom]

@grindpower

Which still supports the advent of the stall decks. 

[ratcharmer]

@gindpower:
I think up to 100 is WAY to much. Consider that at present AI3 can only give a maximum of 20 unless you EM. With you system someone could earn 400 from a single game versus AI3.

I was thinking something closer to 5 for every 10 turns, topping out at 15 , but I'll go into more detail as to my exact plan below.

@zblader:
I'm not sure who you're responding to.

My thoughts on the bonus value
Whether or not this would work depends in large part on getting the right value for the bonuses, and placing them in the right spots.
To know those (as opposed to just picking random numbers that seem "about right"), it's going to take a bit of homework.

From the poll it seems like there's a fair bit of support in the community (although I suspect there's at least a couple who simply voted because they want more , and are therefore hoping it'll be unbalanced) so if anyone is willing to help figure out how to balance this here's what I'd like:

Pick a deck from the archives. We'll need to look at a variety of decks so try to avoid ones people already posted.

Grind AI3 for EXACTLY one hour using the deck you picked. When your done, post the following:
Deck: (post a link to the deck you used)
Electrum: (post the amount you earned in an hour, DO NOT count from selling cards)
EM: (post the number of elemental masteries)
Wins/losses: (win to loss ratio)
ttw: (post the number of wins each turn, should look something like below:)
1 -> 0
2 -> 0
3 -> 0
4 -> 7
5 -> 6
etc . . .

With that info in hand for several decks of different types we can start estimating how much slower at grinding non-rush decks are. From there it should be easy to design a bonus that would still make stall decks slower, but not utterly non-viable.

[ZephyrPhantom]

@ratcharmer I was replying to grindpower.  Also the method of using ttw seems good.

[BluePriest]

Crap... I just had something large typed out and I refreshed the page.... In a nutshell what I was going to say, is this.

Go by % not by adding 

Get 10% more for each turn over 10 up to 100% more electrum. EMs are NOT included in this. So at 18 turns, I would get 80% bonus  and lets say I got an EM. I would get 40  after the battle normally. that 80% isnt applied to the total though, its applied to my base amount of  which in this case is 20, and 80% of 20 is 16 so I would get a total of 56   

It may need to change to 8% per turn after 10 turns, but still. Same concept.

the key is to have a max to the bonus you can get and a min amount of turns to when you can start getting it. Having a max of 100% more prevents spamming a stall, and having a min of turns required to get the bonus ensures that decks like rushes that dont need the bonus in the first place, arent buffed as well.

[Sirither]

My strategy does involve stalling, healing myself with empathic bonds.  My idea was that the games might take longer, but I have a higher change of getting elemental mastery and thus getting that bonus electrum.  With the recent update to this card (where it heals after your creatures attack, rather than during), it's become a lot harder to get elemental mastery - you have to be in full health before you start your turn, meaning that miracle no longer get's you to full health.  If you've been poisoned at any point, it's impossible to get mastery.

Because of the change to this card, I'm now gaining less electrum per game than I was before.  My strategy of playing longer games instead of rushing is no longer as viable.  I absolutely support the idea that longer games should be rewarded more heavily.

[johannhowitzer]

Something logarithmic would probably work best - you get the highest burst of electrum on the first few turns, and it tapers off more and more until at X number of turns you get no extra electrum.  This would reward stall decks more for ending the game quicker, which in turn would discourage stalling as long as possible for more coin - but would still decrease the disadvantage of non-rush decks.  Diminishing returns.

I believe a logarithmic scale of rewards would also resist twinking the system most strongly - in graphing allocation of resources, "corners" on the graph are usually the points of strongest efficiency, and the community would eventually, if roughly, find them.  Logarithmic graphs have no corners.

[QuantumT]

I think that 1 per turn, applied after the EM bonus if necessary, would work fine. If you want, you could put a max on it, but I don't think it's necessary. You'd still be better off ending the game as quickly as possible.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I think that 1 per turn, applied after the EM bonus if necessary, would work fine. If you want, you could put a max on it, but I don't think it's necessary. You'd still be better off ending the game as quickly as possible.

This has the same problem as grindpower's idea, since they're relatively identical - advent of stall decks.

[BluePriest]

Do we want a minimum amount of turns that need to be passed before you start winning bonus  I think this needs to be decided, and how many turns min if so, before any further discussion is done.