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Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248780#msg248780
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2011, 03:24:11 am »
I like the word "blood" (look at my name), but I wouldn't want to have blood as an element. Blood, IMO, is encompassed by Darkness, Death, and Life.

We don't need any new elements.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Offline doublecross

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248800#msg248800
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2011, 03:47:42 am »
To create a scarlet nymph using nymphs tears, would you cast it on your health? Also, would quantum towers now have to produce health as one of the possible quanta? Could pests now possible munch on health? Could discord turn health into quanta or vice versa? Would black hole steal some health? Also, for all mutation cards, if something turned into blood element, then it's abilities would have to cost blood, which would make them cheaper than other abilities 1 :rainbow > 1 health
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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248808#msg248808
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 03:56:39 am »
Holy light is a light card, unholy is the opposite of holy, and light is the opposite of darkness.

I am against adding a new element. Not only the element will have to be balanced, but you will need to change quantum pillars, novas, immolation, black hole, discord...just a lot of cards.
You obviously have not read the thread ^^ the inclusion of the element in the thread wouldn't change any of those cards currently in the game
Quantum Pillars - With 12 elements they average 1 0.25 quantum per turn for each element. With 13 they average 0.23 quantum per turn for each element. Thanks, you just nerfed quantum pillars.

Novas - With 12 elements they generate 12 quantum. With 13 elements they generate 13 quantum. You just buffed nova.

Immolation - With 12 elements it generates 18 quantum. With 13 elements it generates 19 quantum. You just buffed immolation.

Black Hole - With 12 elements it heals and drains up to 36 quantum. With 13 elements it heals and drains up to 39 quantum. You just buffed black hole.

Discord is a bit trickier, but it now spreads quantum over 13 elements which makes it slightly stronger against monos and duos. Hopefully by now you get what I was trying to say (I don't want 5 cards to get a random buff/nerf).
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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248816#msg248816
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2011, 04:11:26 am »
To create a scarlet nymph using nymphs tears, would you cast it on your health? Also, would quantum towers now have to produce health as one of the possible quanta? Could pests now possible munch on health? Could discord turn health into quanta or vice versa? Would black hole steal some health? Also, for all mutation cards, if something turned into blood element, then it's abilities would have to cost blood, which would make them cheaper than other abilities 1 :rainbow > 1 health
He has a point, however unclear it might seem. If, for example, this element was added, it would disrupt everything. Right now, the game is pretty balanced [some things are OP (but I won't get into that here), and some things are UP].

As I stated above, if it were implemented there would need to be a lot of rebalancing needed, and every single card would probably have to be redone, and re-archived. Not to mention, every False god might have to be redone as well. That is the part I am against the most: it would require too much work to be even practical. Yes, it can be done. But at what cost?
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Offline doublecross

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248818#msg248818
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2011, 04:15:37 am »
We would have to pay for these changes in blood, sweat and tears.


(can we add sweat and tears as elements?)
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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248849#msg248849
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2011, 05:14:03 am »
This is not the right section of the forum to suggest Other cards that cost both HP and :rainbow.

I am glad that someone has once again stumbled upon the secret that there is more than just quanta costs.

I will be waiting in the smithy to critique the ideas that develop from sufficient thought on this ^ secret.

PS: Blood is not an Element but the old nova did cost 10hp. Other is a good place for HP costs.
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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248850#msg248850
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2011, 05:15:32 am »
It could plausibly remain here as a suggestion for a new element if and only if things that can effect any type of quanta must now affect health.
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg248929#msg248929
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2011, 09:33:59 am »
To create a scarlet nymph using nymphs tears, would you cast it on your health? Also, would quantum towers now have to produce health as one of the possible quanta? Could pests now possible munch on health? Could discord turn health into quanta or vice versa? Would black hole steal some health? Also, for all mutation cards, if something turned into blood element, then it's abilities would have to cost blood, which would make them cheaper than other abilities 1 :rainbow > 1 health
Playing Nymph Tears on a Quantum Pillar/Tower would net you a random nymph, excluding Blood/Scarlet.
Playing Nymph Tears on your health is impossible.
Playing Nymph Tears on a Blood Pillar/Tower would net you a Blood/Scarlet.

HP may be the "quanta" for the blood element, but it is in no way one of the twelve"traditional quanta." Interpret the cards as written, please. Inclusion of this element would in no way affect the current cards in the game.

Holy light is a light card, unholy is the opposite of holy, and light is the opposite of darkness.

I am against adding a new element. Not only the element will have to be balanced, but you will need to change quantum pillars, novas, immolation, black hole, discord...just a lot of cards.


You obviously have not read the thread ^^ the inclusion of the element in the thread wouldn't change any of those cards currently in the game
Quantum Pillars - With 12 elements they average 1 0.25 quantum per turn for each element. With 13 they average 0.23 quantum per turn for each element. Thanks, you just nerfed quantum pillars.

Novas - With 12 elements they generate 12 quantum. With 13 elements they generate 13 quantum. You just buffed nova.

Immolation - With 12 elements it generates 18 quantum. With 13 elements it generates 19 quantum. You just buffed immolation.

Black Hole - With 12 elements it heals and drains up to 36 quantum. With 13 elements it heals and drains up to 39 quantum. You just buffed black hole.

Discord is a bit trickier, but it now spreads quantum over 13 elements which makes it slightly stronger against monos and duos. Hopefully by now you get what I was trying to say (I don't want 5 cards to get a random buff/nerf).
Quote from: patchx94
HP may be the "quanta" for the blood element, but it is in no way one of the "traditional" quanta. Interpret the cards as written, please. Inclusion of this element would in no way affect the current cards in the game.
To create a scarlet nymph using nymphs tears, would you cast it on your health? Also, would quantum towers now have to produce health as one of the possible quanta? Could pests now possible munch on health? Could discord turn health into quanta or vice versa? Would black hole steal some health? Also, for all mutation cards, if something turned into blood element, then it's abilities would have to cost blood, which would make them cheaper than other abilities 1 :rainbow > 1 health

He has a point, however unclear it might seem. If, for example, this element was added, it would disrupt everything. Right now, the game is pretty balanced [some things are OP (but I won't get into that here), and some things are UP].

As I stated above, if it were implemented there would need to be a lot of rebalancing needed, and every single card would probably have to be redone, and re-archived. Not to mention, every False god might have to be redone as well. That is the part I am against the most: it would require too much work to be even practical. Yes, it can be done. But at what cost?
Quote from: patchx94
HP may be the "quanta" for the blood element, but it is in no way one of the "traditional" quanta. Interpret the cards as written, please. Inclusion of this element would in no way affect the current cards in the game.
In conclusion: Re-read the thread. Where the hell does it say that HP will become an element?

This is not the right section of the forum to suggest Other cards that cost both HP and :rainbow.

I am glad that someone has once again stumbled upon the secret that there is more than just quanta costs.

I will be waiting in the smithy to critique the ideas that develop from sufficient thought on this ^ secret.

PS: Blood is not an Element but the old nova did cost 10hp. Other is a good place for HP costs.
OT, I'm just not sure I want to put a 10-card mono-other series in the smithy. I think that it would be awesome to have a blood element, but I don't think you can just shove a random HP-absorbing Other creature into the game, and so I'm going all or nothing with this idea.
Okay, kuro just gave me the go-ahead to put a 10-card series ("Bloodwork or Bloodbending"...which sounds better?" in the smithy to be voted as a single entity in Crucible. nvm

Okay, I'll submit the individual cards for voting as the series "Bloodwork." This thread will remain for discussion of implementing new cards for the series or fleshing out the series, individual card issues should be in the thread.

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg249296#msg249296
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2011, 08:00:19 pm »
You mostly understood my post patchx94.

The only thing you missed is that the Blood cost would make sense in many different elements:
 :darkness :death :fire :life :light :water :rainbow

It should not be arbitrarily restricted to Other or even "Blood".

May the CCC borrow the Blood mechanic?
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Offline PineappleTopic starter

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg249315#msg249315
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2011, 08:16:12 pm »
You mostly understood my post patchx94.

The only thing you missed is that the Blood cost would make sense in many different elements:
 :darkness :death :fire :life :light :water :rainbow

It should not be arbitrarily restricted to Other or even "Blood".

May the CCC borrow the Blood mechanic?
The thing is, OT, that the Blood mechanic cannot in itself spawn amazing new ideas. While, a single creature with the Blood mechanic may be cool, the purpose of creating a new "element" was to make a multitude of unoriginal creatures (dragons, nymphs, mid-range attackers) that could be fueled by blood pillars/towers.

But sure, we can use the mechanic for whatever you want, although I urge us not to get too deep and make like five-layer creatures with too many triggers, abilities, perks, etc. This isn't inception, we don't need to go deeper.

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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg249336#msg249336
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2011, 08:36:25 pm »
NAME: Blood Striker
COST: 5
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 3|3
TEXT: Absorb 2 HPs per turn.
NAME: Blood Assassin
COST: 5
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 4|4
TEXT: Absorb 3 HPs per turn.
NAME: Bloody Dragon
COST: 10
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 8|4
TEXT: Absorb 4 HPs per turn.
NAME: Hemato Dragon
COST: 12
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 10|5
TEXT: Absorb 5 HPs per turn.
NAME: Bloody Nymph
COST: 8
TYPE: Creature
ATK|HP: 5|5
TEXT: Heal: Gain 20 HPs. Absorb 15 HPs per turn.
NAME: Scarlet Nymph
COST: 8
ATK|HP: 7|2
TEXT: Heal: Gain 20 HPs. Absorb 16 HPs per turn.
i think the best way for these cards to work would be for quick- almost suicide- games. though you should lower all the creatures's costs for that
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Re: Blood Element. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19571.msg251404#msg251404
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 10:00:28 pm »
There is no need to repeat Magic mistakes.
Especially at 100, not 20, life.

"undercosted put pay life" cards are going to end up either useless (if their other costs are anywhere near reason) or hopelessly imba (I did played Trix deck;))) necropotence, scoop).

There is an inherent flaw in using life as an expendable resoure, in that unlike mana (sorry quanta), you get a full compliment right away, and ALL of it save for 1 last one is absolutely FREE.
Yea, just like that. Pay 99 life to do something that's gonna win me the game? sure. On teh first turn, mate.
(It could even not be lethal with all the SoGs and other stuff around)

Bottom line - no. Tried and tested, very tricky design space that gets degenerate real fast.

 

blarg: