Better Structure Decks

[ForlornProphet]

Now I know the comments and arguments I get from when I say this, people state "Then it would be to easy and there would be no challenge". However, what is the point of a structure deck? A structure deck is a way to invite someone whom has never played a game before to come in and join. Structure decks should be playable from the start they are given and can be easily modified or not modified. Structure decks should have balance and should feature the game at its best. Maybe I'm stupid or dumb, but I'll give you my experience as a new time player to Elements. Elements is a fun game, when you know what you're doing. But if you don't, if you come into the game and knowing nothing, then you will need some serious help.

Now a lot of people pointed to me to a thread as a new member: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1190.0.html as a way to help me build a better deck. But in my humble opinion, if the decks the tutorial were the structure starter decks I think I would have understood the game a lot better. And understood why certain things didn't work with certain things. It also gives the new member a better understanding of mono decks, instead of throwing them into a multiple type deck they may not be ready for. That and many of the structure decks have problems, to many pillars for one. Far to many in fact.

Now some people will probably say that makes the game overpowered, however, if you look at any structure take for example a Yugioh structure deck. There was a Zombie Structure, with almost all cards catering in aiding zombies and all the monsters were zombie. Not only that, but you could play Yugioh right out of the box with that deck. If you're saying to me about Elements as a new member I have to modify my deck immediately then the game doesn't set itself up to being played right away. This as a new member can get confusing and frustrating.

That and I feel it gives new members a disadvantage for one. At lvl 1 with so many pillars in hand, I have severe disadvantage to the AI whom seems to have a better hand. Lvl 1 decks do not have to be random and unfocused. They can be focused and weak.

But the main issue is structure decks should be able to be played right away.

Then it comes up another argument, "But the starter decks do not matter". And if that is the case, then have the new member choose an element, take them to the bazaar, limit them on what they can spend and make them make a tutorial mode style deck. But true be told, structure decks matter. If a new member cannot grasp the concept of your game, maybe I'm dumb, or if a new member cannot play without a severe disadvantage then there is something that needs to be fixed. And maybe I'm just dumb. And maybe I'm not playing the game properly. I don't know. But this is my suggestion.

[Mathematistic]

Yes indeed. I'm confused with the starter decks 1 year ago too. In fact, I reset my account a few times when I was a newbie just to grasp how to play the game.
Sequenced deck tutorials might help. In a lot of card games, their starter decks are semi-competitive or non-competitive, and are able to teach the newbies how to play the game based on the pre-arranged sequence and a rulebook.
Even though starter decks are supposed to suck, they should at least include some competitive utility cards.
I support to motion to revamp the starters.

[ForlornProphet]

Glad I'm not the only one as a new member restarting my account because I just don't understand the game very well. Or at least to find an element that can help me as I grow up as a better player.

[neuroleptics]

well, after you choose the element you want, a starter deck is given. As you play the AIs from level zero to level 2 at most, you gain experience. If the deck is good enough, you would have tried to walk before you learn to crawl. This doesn't put us in a disadvantage state. The more you play, the creative you become, able to play correct cards at a correct time and not spamming like the AIs. Anyway, it's impossible that you lose to level 0. Play around 10 matches, you should be able to get the gist of it, playing level 1 enables you to get lucky spin, trade the unwanted cards, cut the number to 30 cards, you would have a solid deck against AI 2 and as you play more, AI 3 can no longer be your opponent. Here you go. It might seem to be a long process, but i took just a day. Be patient.
There're losta descks in the forum but not all are useful to beginners. Here i recommend a deck...you can get those cards just by playing a few matches.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 55q 55q 590 590 5c1 5c1 5f6 5f6 5lf 5og 5on 5rk 5rr 5up 5up 61q 61q 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 8pt

As a matter of fact, when i first started to play, i straight away traded the unwanted pillars and the element that i don't want. I start with playing mono-element, 30 cards. I had to thank my friends. Had i not watched them play before, i would have known the importance of balancing the attack, quanta, and even defense (this includes creature and permanent controls)

[Mathematistic]

well, after you choose the element you want, a starter deck is given. As you play the AIs from level zero to level 2 at most, you gain experience. If the deck is good enough, you would have tried to walk before you learn to crawl. This doesn't put us in a disadvantage state. The more you play, the creative you become, able to play correct cards at a correct time and not spamming like the AIs. Anyway, it's impossible that you lose to level 0. Play around 10 matches, you should be able to get the gist of it, playing level 1 enables you to get lucky spin, trade the unwanted cards, cut the number to 30 cards, you would have a solid deck against AI 2 and as you play more, AI 3 can no longer be your opponent. Here you go. It might seem to be a long process, but i took just a day. Be patient.
There're losta descks in the forum but not all are useful to beginners. Here i recommend a deck...you can get those cards just by playing a few matches.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 55q 55q 590 590 5c1 5c1 5f6 5f6 5lf 5og 5on 5rk 5rr 5up 5up 61q 61q 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 8pt

1. Not all newbies know about the forum. In fact, I am the only one among my RL elements friends who is a forum regular.
2. I was confused at the beginning too. When I introduce elements to my RL friends, they are even more confused than me, and it took them a long time to learn the basis of the game. (Now they are all grinders who use the same grabbow... lol)
3. Not all newbies can build their own rainbow without assistance. In fact, they might not even know what is a nova at the beginning of the game. Neither do they know about QI balance r any advanced deckbuilding concepts. Giving them a good deck skeleton in the form of a starter deck and teach them to modify the deck with tutorials is a better way to get players started.

...you don't want to see the same grabbow in every newbie account do you...

[Annele]

It took me a year to fully grasp the game. But that might be due to the complete lack of Online Card Game knowledge I possessed.
I remember just clicking cards I could, and thinking that in a few days I'd be back to Club Penguin. I'm glad I stuck it out though.

[ForlornProphet]

-snip-

As Math, these aren't concepts a newbie will understand. I still barely know the games function in Quanta department, in the department of how effective cards are with each other. Good structure, starter decks aids new members into this. Giving them a good structure of a mono deck [because mono decks are easy for new members to understand] in showing how a deck could work with the right balance. Because that's all everyone is achieving the right balance. A new member needs to be taught this balance. And a structure deck is the way to do so.

If Yugioh card structure deck in Zombie Madness, as a structure deck, the original structure deck the one that was released gave you just about every card needed to help with your first zombie deck. They also gave you good defensive cards as well. And all the monsters were zombies. Now let's pretend this wasn't the structure deck of Yugioh card structure deck, and they gave you let's say only 5 zombies, mix match magic and spells some aided zombies and some didn't, and let's say a bunch of silly little magic cards. Then it's most likely to discourage new players and may be what is stopping new members from joining.

Structure decks are a teaching tool. You cannot give a multitype structure deck, say go learn to play the game, and then make them change their deck that they hardly understand to begin with.

I will give another example of an experience as a new member. I chose a life starter deck. When I looked at the starter deck, now knowing what I do, I saw a couple of life. A lot of Pillars, and then half the deck is taken up by fire monsters. How is that for a balanced structure deck? How does that teach me the effectiveness of the element taught? I think the structure decks on here should be mono first, and slowly work the new members up to a multitype. Structures deck are there as teaching tools.

Another example using Yugioh, when I first started out with Yugioh the structure deck I got was Zombie madness. It was a good starter deck and most national and local tournaments accepted the structure deck as is. They made a tool based structure deck ready for competitive play style. And this structure deck is what helped me be able to build my own original decks even better than the structure decks. Now I don't even need a structure deck, but the first good structure deck taught me how to make a good strong deck by following the formula taught.

This should be utilized in Elements. This should be something to at least consider in Elements. Good structure, equals more understanding, less confusion, and a better base for new members to stand on.

[Naesala]

Watching this. I will say that personally I think the starter decks should be reworked to be monos or -decent- duos (Grav-death, for example). It's silly having so many clashing cards.

[Annele]

Watching this. I will say that personally I think the starter decks should be reworked to be monos or -decent- duos (Grav-death, for example). It's silly having so many clashing cards.

The starter decks are currently the main element + a few cards from the element below it in the bazaar.

[neuroleptics]

As new elements player, (if you consider that i've just played for half a year) i would say that's my opinion instead of experience.
In my opinion, yes, the starter decks are indeed no help at all. But knowledge is to be sought and many succeeded after a few trials and errors, but sadly some left as i've seen. there're a few that i've explained with much pain be it in chat or other ways, that they choose to stay and i'm glad to see them in PvP's using some solid decks yet some were determined that pain in seeking knowledge is not profitable and i've not seen them eversince.

well, i didn't face such issues when i played, i realized that as in any card games, it's either you play both attack and defend balanced, or just play either, and that was not taught, but certainly no harm making those that are yet to join elements' life easier. Anyhow, there should be a thread regarding starter decks and a proper guide instead of changing the deck. You see, there are some beginners that cremate all the fire spirits in the deck. But i'll advise as in any game, i look at the descriptions then only i play.
This is elements, and unique to itself, so, let's not compare to other card games, but sure enough it has got lostsa aspects that needs improvement.

well, if a certain deck is good and easily built, why not, since that will not be their ultimate deck. Don't worry, i'm not involved in war and i'm certainly not supporting entropy as i've other elements of choice. Playing rainbow wouldn't make them entropy supporters

[Naesala]

Watching this. I will say that personally I think the starter decks should be reworked to be monos or -decent- duos (Grav-death, for example). It's silly having so many clashing cards.

mos
The starter decks are currently the main element + a few cards from the element below it in the bazaar.

[sarcasm]Really? I had no idea [/sarcasm]
using entropy as my example (didnt check all elements to see if it's equally bad everywhere) there are 16/40 off element cards. That is nearly half, more than a few. While I agree the starter decks shouldn't be good and should encourage players to customize them, having a large chunk of a deck be, essentially, worthless is not the way to go. Give them a weak synergy. If we wish to again use entropy as an example, an Entropy death starter would be fine if we dropped most of the death cards and replaced them with death cards that work with the CC entropy offers. What good is one poison card? Starter decks should, at the least, make sense, especially for people who havent played card games before. Heck, I know air and time are put together in a starter deck and I cant think of any good synergy between them, but a newbie might assume that since thats his starter deck that they are supposed to work well together and be confused when his air-time duo fails

[teffy]

I think the starter decks could be a BIT better.
Here is an old FAQ from zanz, why he created weak starter decks, was de-linked a short while after the forums were opened.

Q. The game is too hard, winning new cards is too hard, buying new cards is too expensive:
A. Click "Manage Deck" and get rid of some of the cards you do not like/use, sell them, just remember you need at least 30 cards in your deck, try to put together a strategy and you'll start winning.

Q. Couldn't you just give beginners a better deck and give them more coins to start with:
A. I believe one of the most exciting things to do with this game is to customize and improve your deck, find new strategies and try them on the battlefield. A starter deck with some random cards gives the player some room for quick improvements and customization.