Better PvP

[Contrary]

You farm AI3, you grind Arena, you farm FGs.

But you play PvP.

This game would be a lot more fun if it moved away from PvE and more to PvP.

[OldTrees]

You farm AI3, you grind Arena, you farm FGs.

But you play PvP.

This game would be a lot more fun if it moved away from PvE and more to PvP.

PvP 1, PvP 2, Indirect PvP (Arena), Tournaments, WAR, ...

What beyond these were you looking for?

[Rember]

The forum PvP events are the 'more PvP' part you're looking for. So many PvP events, Leagues, War, WoE, Weekly tournaments and more.

[Contrary]

I apologize that was a shoddy post, I was interrupted and foolishly decided to submit it.

Anyways I think that the forum organized events are fantastic, and while I haven't entered any yet I am attempting to dip my toe in to test the waters. However I think that these are a special case, requiring set up and organization whereas and Elements is very much a casual pick up and play kind of game. Despite all of these great PvP events the majority of time spent playing this game, even among more experienced players is spent grinding. Tedious work quitting FG after FG in order to get an easy one or wearing out their space bar playing Mono Aether in bronze in order to profit and get rares. I think this game would be a lot more fun if the main time occupier was PvP, or at the very least it were a viable alternative to fighting the same AIs over and over.

Primarily for this to be the case I think that PvP needs to be profitable in terms of money and/or rares. We all know that you get a pitiful amount of electrum playing PvP and a very low amount of spins, even if you win consistently. I think that increasing the amount of money gained per win would help considerably. Maybe rare spins for consecutive wins like the arena? I'd like to see PvP be a method to gaining stuff as much as grinding.

Furthermore I think the PvP experience could be greatly improved and expanded upon. Looking through changelogs I see scarcely any changes to PvP. I'm not saying that Zanz owes any of us anything and especially not that I am demanding him to do this, but again I think that this shows a neglect of non organized PvP. Speaking in the most hypothetical sense there could eventually be things like in game leagues or casual speedbuilding events. But even aside from complicated things the netcode could be improved. PvP suffers from slowness and desynchs and disconnects that may not be entirely attributable to bad international connections or donation funded servers. Again I don't want to come off as ungrateful or entitled, but I'm just saying that these are elements of the game that have been neglected. Even small things like adjusting how turn time limits work would be greatly appreciated. I often have games where the opponent waits until the the last five seconds to make their move every turn, which is just a poor experience.

Of course this also brings up many issues, like the recent farming exploit. As far as I can tell this consists primarily of looking for a PvP game at the exact same time. With better PvP more players will be playing at any given time, making it more difficult to synch up with the person you wish to farm. Even aside from this counters to this problem are being thought up right now; I think it is an entirely defeatable issue.

Another issue is that making it profitable may take away the fun mess around aspect and it may become a grind with legions of tryhards copying the new best "PvP grinder" deck from the wiki. I think this could be mitigated by separating PvP into different leagues. Upped and Unupped of course but also maybe semi upped or various other levels with different antes and proportionately higher rewards, leaving low stakes games to noobs and casual fun games. But even in the worst case scenario having a gamemode full of the tryhardiest players whoring out the tryhardiest decks I think that would still be more entertaining than PvE. Every deck has a counter and trying to predict and stay ahead of the trend would be a lot more entertaining than using RoL Hope for years.

[OldTrees]

Zanz has made some major improvements to pvp.
PvP & T50
PvP 1 & PvP 2
+PvP Duel (aka user controlled PvP)
T50 -> Arena

Zanz give codes to be used as awards in certain forum PvP events.
Indirect PvP (T50 and Arena) has always been the easiest way to get rares.

PvP 1 and PvP 2 could see an electrum boost but probably not a rare boost since they are already used by some as a farming exploit.

Is increased electrum and rares the only improvements you were looking for? If not please give examples and ideas.

[Contrary]

I guess I have lost some clarity in my attempt to not sound ungracious. Primarily I want PvP to be a more enjoyable experience by improved speed and netcode, and more profitable by more money and rares.

[OldTrees]

I guess I have lost some clarity in my attempt to not sound ungracious. Primarily I want PvP to be a more enjoyable experience by improved speed and netcode, and more profitable by more money and rares.

Ah. Yeah. Zanz knows this desire and has improved these features over the years. It is not as easy as balancing the game.

For a moment I thought you had one of those obvious in hindsight suggestions that everyone is oblivious to until spoken. I agree that these features should continue to improve.

[Contrary]

I agree that these features should continue to improve.

Wait no that's not exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that pvp should continue to improve in playability and profitability with the intention of taking it to the extent where it matches or overtakes pve in popularity. Saying "make this better" is a very worthless suggestion, and I realize I'm coming off in that way.

I'm not just suggestion and improvement, I'm suggesting a shift in paradigm.

[OldTrees]

I agree that these features should continue to improve.

Wait no that's not exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that pvp should continue to improve in playability and profitability with the intention of taking it to the extent where it matches or overtakes pve in popularity. Saying "make this better" is a very worthless suggestion, and I realize I'm coming off in that way.

I'm not just suggestion and improvement, I'm suggesting a shift in paradigm.

I am mostly forum bound but from my limited vantage it sounds like pvp is more popular than pve. (as it should be)

[DrunkDestroyer]

I agree that these features should continue to improve.

Wait no that's not exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that pvp should continue to improve in playability and profitability with the intention of taking it to the extent where it matches or overtakes pve in popularity. Saying "make this better" is a very worthless suggestion, and I realize I'm coming off in that way.

I'm not just suggestion and improvement, I'm suggesting a shift in paradigm.

I'm with you on this one.

A Huge part of the game (well, nearly all of it) is basically your deckbuilding. And while it might be satisfying to demolish the AI with your Basilisk Blooded Acceletated Armagio's, its not nearly the same as against another human player.

Also, WAR, PvP Tourneys and Leagues are not replacements. Not everybody who plays the game can, or should be part of the forum. (It would be complete chaos to be honest). The game should be able to live on its own.


My view is basically this: The game is a grinding machine. It's awesome, and constantly being updated to make it better and more fun. But the whole point of earning all this is so that you can compare, and use it. So while improving the machine is great, the actual connection and bonds between the machines are what will make the game in the end.

In the end, I'm agreeing with you, but I'm not seeing much direction in what way you want PvP improved (aside from the obvious bug fixes and ect). Money and Rares have been added.

I basically see two things which (IMO) would help, one more PvP related than the other.
1) Be able to search for and play against someones Arena deck much like a PvP Duel. (Type the name of a friend who wants to show off their creation, plus with the False God Mechanics, it takes 'Beat my FG' to a whole new level, and is accessible to new players as well, without forum/trainer/knowledge.
2) PvP Lobby. I suggested this a while back, and I'll never find it until the search function is back, but basically a giant chat room, in-game (separate page, like Arena is now), where you can challenge people to different game types. (PvP1, 2 and Duel). If initiative is taken, little tourneys can be started - they'll mever be as professional as the forum hosted ones here, but thats what the forum is for. You can discuss, abuse people who firestall, and pick specific people you want to play.



@OT, Everybody likes PvP more, if that is popularity, but in terms of actual time spent PvE wins every time.

[OldTrees]

Good additions.

Would it make sense to have part of the current chat be used as the PvP lobby?

[Contrary]

Thank you, that's what I've been trying to say but was tot inarticulate to.

Anyways I think that increased profitability is an underestimated change. The only reason you play FGs and not PvP is to profit, that's why you autoquit Gods you might have otherwise beaten, because the chance isn't profitable to take. If PvP was just as profitable, all of those people playing PvE just for profit, wouldn't. They would play PvP. Sounds like a big change to me.