Another slot proposal

[tyranim]

you cant buy rares, which is what most people go for while grinding the t50 or gods, which is what this will mostly affect. adding another spin with EMs will only make it easier for more experienced players, because they know how to get EMs faster and easier. while newer players dont know how to do that, which means they get left out until they become more informed. this is why it will widen the gap between nubs and vets. i myself am a veteran, yet i dont have all the rares, or a lot of upgraded cards. this slot proposal will help me A LOT. while if i were a newer player, it would almost not help me at all.

[PhuzzY LogiK]

you cant buy rares, which is what most people go for while grinding the t50 or gods, which is what this will mostly affect. adding another spin with EMs will only make it easier for more experienced players, because they know how to get EMs faster and easier. while newer players dont know how to do that, which means they get left out until they become more informed. this is why it will widen the gap between nubs and vets. i myself am a veteran, yet i dont have all the rares, or a lot of upgraded cards. this slot proposal will help me A LOT. while if i were a newer player, it would almost not help me at all.

The only real necessary grinding in this game is to make a FG farmer.  After that, you have a pretty steady source of income to make other decks (like a Top50 grinder that will get you rares).  The problem is that anymore, a FG farmer means 30-60 upped cards.  That's 45000-90000 electrum.  That will take forever to get playing AI3 or even Top50.

This wasn't so much of an issue before because you used to be able to get a 40-50% win rate against FGs with maybe only 10 upped cards.  But things have changed, as I said before.  Try that now and you will probably win less than 30% of your games, which means you are actually losing electrum.  In order to effectively farm FGs, you now need 3x as much electrum.  You could probably farm AI5 with only 10 upped cards, but they have the worst chances to win cards, and you can get electrum faster from AI3.

Giving a few extra spins will help this a bit, either because they can sell cards for money, or win cards so they don't have to buy them.  But would this give "veterans" an edge?  I don't think so.  Once again, when you have a FG farmer, you have income.  By that point, you probably already have at least 1-2 copies of most of the rares, if not more.  For example, if you're only going to use 1 Pulvy in a deck, it doesn't matter if you can win more faster.  They will just sit in your unused card section. 

To put this differently:
Before you have a FG farmer:  Money is tight.  As soon as you hit >1500 electrum, you're probably immediately upping a card.  All of your electrum is going towards upgrades, so you can't afford to swap decks on a whim.  Winning an extra card so you don't have to buy it or having it to sell is VERY helpful.

After you have a FG farmer: Money can still be tight for a while, but now you can win some upped cards to sell for quick income.  You buy the cards you want and farm for rares.  Most of the time, you are only using 1-2 copies of a rare, so being able to win 12 is redundant.  In a sense, you've plateaued.  Winning one more card doesn't mean much, because you already have the resources.

A few extra spins for a beginner is HUGE.  For a veteran, it's just one more card to file away.  It will only close the gap, because the only meaningful "line in the sand" is if you have a FG farmer or not, and veterans already have it.

[tyranim]

im able to start a new account and immediately start grinding the t50 without doing a single fight. (thanks to a 400 electrum death deck) i have about 100 electrum left over after the change to the starter deck and i can fight the t50 easily, i dont see how money can be tight. not to mention the fact that its a lot easier to get rares fighting the t50. and after your done getting all those rares, you can start building your fg deck. by then though you probably have enough money to make one post haste. but the problem with what i just said is that MOST new players dont even know about what i just said, which is what im getting at. the slot proposal will help people, who know a good deal about elements, more than others. which means the gap will widen, i dont know how many times i have to say that for you to understand.

[PhuzzY LogiK]

It's not that I don't understand what you're saying, it's that I think you're wrong.

If the game is so easy, why do you only have 9 upgraded cards and don't have all the rares?  If it's as easy as you say, you should have no problem getting them by now even only playing 10-15 minutes every few days.

The difference between our viewpoints is that I've actually done it, and you've read about it on the forums.  How do you know what it takes to build a FG deck when you've never even done it yourself?  Of course you don't "see how money can be tight" when you don't play the game.

[tyranim]

i only have 9 rares because i dont spend much time on the main game. most of my time goes to forums and trainer. im sure i have A LOT more experience with elements than you, but i dont waste my score/electrum testing ingame. my method is my own, and i have been at it for roughly a year now. dont think big of yourself just because you grind a lot, wasting your time with the boring part of the game. i play elements for fun, not for professionalism, the way ALL games are meant to be played. and for your information, i have farmed the fgs for some time, and i didnt like it. it was INCREADIBLY boring. i got tired of getting killed 50% of the time. so i started fighting the t50, quiting if its a farm (unless its a farm that has a rare i wanted to get) and the reason i dont have ALL the rares is because i sell them to get decks, a very WIDE variety of decks.

[WhiteTigerShiro]

It's an interesting idea, but if they were to implement something like that it shouldn't be tied to EMs.  Rather, it should be tied to some other mechanic.  EMs give favor to healing-based decks, and rush decks don't need a boost because they're about killing fast to get more spins within a given time.  Maybe the game could be set to track mitigated damage.  Things like % to miss shields, Phase Shields, Wings, etc.  If an opponent's creature should have hurt you but didn't, that damage would go towards a number the game tracks.  If the number is big enough, then you get +1 spin.

[PhuzzY LogiK]

i only have 9 rares because i dont spend much time on the main game. most of my time goes to forums and trainer. im sure i have A LOT more experience with elements than you, but i dont waste my score/electrum testing ingame. my method is my own, and i have been at it for roughly a year now. dont think big of yourself just because you grind a lot, wasting your time with the boring part of the game. i play elements for fun, not for professionalism, the way ALL games are meant to be played. and for your information, i have farmed the fgs for some time, and i didnt like it. it was INCREADIBLY boring. i got tired of getting killed 50% of the time. so i started fighting the t50, quiting if its a farm (unless its a farm that has a rare i wanted to get) and the reason i dont have ALL the rares is because i sell them to get decks, a very WIDE variety of decks.

Are you listening to yourself?  A suggestion was made to cut down on grind time.  You said it was a bad idea.  And yet you admittedly don't play the game itself because the grinding "makes it boring".

You've proven my point.  You like the game and are willing to play, but would rather play in the trainer because then you can immediately be creative with cards and electrum.  The problem with that is that most events/competitions/tournaments/PvP/wars/etc cannot be done from within the trainer.  So why not take the best of both worlds and just make it easier to get cards faster in the actual game?  That's what he was suggesting.

Most people aren't like you.  If they get bored with the game, they will just quit and not come back.  Something needs to be done to help new players along if you want more people to play the game.

It's an interesting idea, but if they were to implement something like that it shouldn't be tied to EMs.  Rather, it should be tied to some other mechanic.  EMs give favor to healing-based decks, and rush decks don't need a boost because they're about killing fast to get more spins within a given time.  Maybe the game could be set to track mitigated damage.  Things like % to miss shields, Phase Shields, Wings, etc.  If an opponent's creature should have hurt you but didn't, that damage would go towards a number the game tracks.  If the number is big enough, then you get +1 spin.

Right now, in Top50 and below, the game is hugely biased towards rush decks.  There is no incentive to play anything else because the rewards don't even compare if you take your time on a game.  If this were tied to EMs, maybe some more variety would be seen.  Rush decks would still be useful, but people who choose to build healing decks wouldn't get completely screwed over.  This wouldn't end rush decks, it would just open an alternative play style.   

[tyranim]

i only have 9 rares because i dont spend much time on the main game. most of my time goes to forums and trainer. im sure i have A LOT more experience with elements than you, but i dont waste my score/electrum testing ingame. my method is my own, and i have been at it for roughly a year now. dont think big of yourself just because you grind a lot, wasting your time with the boring part of the game. i play elements for fun, not for professionalism, the way ALL games are meant to be played. and for your information, i have farmed the fgs for some time, and i didnt like it. it was INCREADIBLY boring. i got tired of getting killed 50% of the time. so i started fighting the t50, quiting if its a farm (unless its a farm that has a rare i wanted to get) and the reason i dont have ALL the rares is because i sell them to get decks, a very WIDE variety of decks.

Are you listening to yourself?  A suggestion was made to cut down on grind time.  You said it was a bad idea.  And yet you admittedly don't play the game itself because the grinding "makes it boring".

You've proven my point.  You like the game and are willing to play, but would rather play in the trainer because then you can immediately be creative with cards and electrum.  The problem with that is that most events/competitions/tournaments/PvP/wars/etc cannot be done from within the trainer.  So why not take the best of both worlds and just make it easier to get cards faster in the actual game?  That's what he was suggesting.

Most people aren't like you.  If they get bored with the game, they will just quit and not come back.  Something needs to be done to help new players along if you want more people to play the game.

alright, first off, youve got it completely wrong. i dont use trainer because i dont want to farm the cards to get some fun. i use trainer for several reasons.

reason 1
testing decks proposed by people on forums

reason 2
testing possible decks that i would use in the war/trials

reason 3
i test new cards and see if they are worthy to be put into the game


now, as for the "Something needs to be done to help new players along if you want more people to play the game." thing, who are you to speak for people you dont even know? i also have a problem with this little quote "Most people aren't like you.  If they get bored with the game, they will just quit and not come back." like i said before, who are you to speak for people you dont even know? i happen to know that a VAST majority of the veteran players got bored of farming a LONG time ago, yet they continued to play, just as i have.
now, back to this "Something needs to be done to help new players along if you want more people to play the game", elements is fine as it is, it has more players than it needs, after all, look at the multiple times zanz had to upgrade the server JUST to keep up with people making accounts.

[PhuzzY LogiK]

And what right do you have to say which suggestions are good for a game you don't even play?

This has become a useless waste of time.  I'm done here.

[tyranim]

interesting you would say that, when its rather obvious that all what i said was OPINION. like everything else i say on forums (with exception to a very rare moment for me that i know something not many other people know). i have all the rights in the world to state my opinion. and your right, this has been a waste of your time

[fl0ppy]

Hey I miss a couple of days the forum and I find all this!

Just a quick thing before start: Fuzz.. I do sympathize with who had to do grinding cause in the last month my average playing time is something about 4 to 5 hours in a day spent over the game almost all days.
That's why I thought of this proposal, for make the game a bit better for the newcomers and avoid a bit of that painstaking process.

I know many of you in the past are gone trought that: but if someone bash you in the head with a stick you will cluck the stick hailing it as "your treasssure" ? 

You have done it,  and for what I understand, times where different back then, cards where different, and many now are quite nerfed EG sundial, so it's not looking that good from who is starting the game right now.

I've farmed lvl3 moved up to Top50 and after lately I'm on Half Blood with sometime a  match against the False Gods, cant do different or better until the deck is fully upped .
I hate the very stingy Half Blood, for the reasons that are described in another thread, but at this moment I dont really need cards, but Electrums for upgrade my current deck, unless I get so lucky to win one of the cards that I need to upgrade.

I dont think I will sell, as example, the 6 artic squids I got, just for gathering Electrums, since took me a lot of luck and quite some time for having those. Im not using them, true, but I may change my mind at some point, so I prefer keep them. I can sell minors card but at 15 to 40 electrum each how many cards I can upgrade? 2 or 3 at max, so I believe that sell back is not the way. I personally sell only cards in excess of 6 so, may be is that my problem, but at the end of the day the Electrums are there for buy common cards for starters and upgrade the card in the deck.

What I see actually happen to myself is: after some time of playing this game the initial entusiasm has started to chill and I found myself slamming my face against the hard wall of the grinding that I find a time consuming process.  Therefore, the expectative to grind a lot for the upgrades, make me wanting to play less and less.

My proposal is a simple little shourtcut that shouldnt impact on the game that badly, but that may allow players to get a bit of more cards and speed up the deckbuilding process.

[R401JL]

I'm with flOppy on this one, maybe not the extra slot, but at least some way in which the rate of income could be increased.

I mean what do I do?  Ditch my entire deck and start again with an FG farm build from the forums?  I could farm the FG's, save up and then buy the deck I wanted.

Sensible?  Yes (kind of).  Fun?  No.  I don't want to farm with someone else's deck.  I don't want to farm at all, in my opinion as soon as 'farming' is involved, you no longer play the game, the game plays you, you're just 'gestating' until you can play again.

I want the feeling of pride that comes with knowing that you yourself crafted that deck that just whupped that FG's ass.  I also want the fun of trying out new combinations or other "deck research" and the process by which you (as an elements player) and your deck evolve over time.  I mean I sold loads of nymphs and squids etc to fund my deck only to get ridiculed (quite savagely in some instances - thank you elements community  ) for using them for the electrum which I was finding so hard to come by.

And what if I wish to change my deck?  Ditch it all again?  Back to the FG farm deck again?

In the old days, you just opened the box, read the book and played the game.  You didn't have to spend hours on a forum first, finding out how someone else thinks you should (or indeed, should not) play the game, just to make sure you didn't make a costly mistake like I did.

Anyway, elements is still an awesome game, just a little slow at the start for the non-experts (like me)