A thought about self sacraficing creatures

[Kuross]

Okay, before I get shot over this one, I know that an argument can be brought against what I am about to suggest and I will try to address it momentarily.

This thought only applies to a few, select creatures, but in the future there will be new creautres that may possess similar abilities and I figured why not cover them as well. Question is- should effects, like Freeze and Delay, prevent abilities that involve the sacrafice of a creature, such as Virus?

On one hand the argument can be that it is the creature doing the sacraficing and thus can be abated by CC, but on the other hand, am I not the being in control of the creatures summoned to fight for me? Do I care if my virus is a bit on the frozen side or slowed when I sacrafice it for it's effect?

I guess the real question is who is doing the actual sacraficing? Me or the creature. Given how the game works, in that I am a being who is part of, and able to, control an element and thus use my powers to battle, don't I do the sacraficing? If so, then Freeze wouldn't stop me from sacraficing a virus. Maybe the Virus I summoned has a living will in that he bequethes to me, the elemental that summoned him, that should he ever be comatose from a delay that I should sacrafice him for the better good.

Meh, maybe I am going off on some wild tangent and this is completely off base, but I am curious about whether or not others have thought along these lines in the past.

[Falcon4415]

From the biological point of view, a virus "dies" (viruses are not considered live beings) when it infects a cell.

Then again, Elements has nothing to do with science or reality, so I am going to support your "I am in comtrol of my creatures" point of view.

[CrazyJay94]

i support this argument.

[wizelsnarf]

I disagree.

You can still immolate a frozen creature, which proves there are distinct mechanics about sacrifice already. No need to overstep those.

Virus is different from immolation.

[Kuross]

I get that Immo is a sacraficing mechanic and I knew this was going to pop up in this thread. The thing about Immo that makes it different from Virus is I am using one effect to create an entirely different effect in that I am converting one thing into another. Immo isn't just a sacraficing mechanic but a conversion process in where it changes the creature sacraficed and converts it into quanta. This is not the same thing as a virus, which is more a kamekaze effect than a converting effect.

[OldTrees]

Virus is also a transformational effect.
Both Virus and Immolation convert creatures into spell effects.

[geekz_always_win]

Everytime you used the word sacrifice, you spelled it wrong....

[wizelsnarf]

I get that Immo is a sacraficing mechanic and I knew this was going to pop up in this thread. The thing about Immo that makes it different from Virus is I am using one effect to create an entirely different effect in that I am converting one thing into another. Immo isn't just a sacraficing mechanic but a conversion process in where it changes the creature sacraficed and converts it into quanta. This is not the same thing as a virus, which is more a kamekaze effect than a converting effect.

I think you proved yourself why your request doesn't make sense. If I freeze a "Kamikaze" creature, they can no longer use suicide to hurt me or my creatures.

You just basically said that virus commits suicide and is NOT sacrificed. Suicide can only be committed by the person/creature doing it, not somebody else.

[Kuross]

I get that Immo is a sacraficing mechanic and I knew this was going to pop up in this thread. The thing about Immo that makes it different from Virus is I am using one effect to create an entirely different effect in that I am converting one thing into another. Immo isn't just a sacraficing mechanic but a conversion process in where it changes the creature sacraficed and converts it into quanta. This is not the same thing as a virus, which is more a kamekaze effect than a converting effect.

I think you proved yourself why your request doesn't make sense. If I freeze a "Kamikaze" creature, they can no longer use suicide to hurt me or my creatures.

You just basically said that virus commits suicide and is NOT sacrificed. Suicide can only be committed by the person/creature doing it, not somebody else.

I think of effects like a catapult that takes a creature and uses the poor thing as a projectile. The person loading the creature into the catapult isn't going to care that it's frozen. Might find it more useful if the it were. Perhaps using kamikaze was a bad choice of words.

[wizelsnarf]

Okay so I agree with you there. If I catapult, sacrifice, or immolate the creature, who cares what status it has. But if the creature itself is the one doing the ability, then of course the status matters.

That is the case with virus and retrovirus. We have plague as a separate spell which shows that retrovirus has this skill (otherwise why have two duplicate skills with one costing more?). Just because the cost of the skill is free I dont think that means it is not a skill that the creature enacts.

In the same way a frozen scorpion should still be poisonous/venomous (virus should be too, thematically speaking).



Anyhow I never thought of virus as killing itself but rather converting itself into poison counters. It is like the plague or something. It kills a ton of creatures but it kills itself in the process because the creatures that contained it die.

[Kuross]

For what it's worth, I knew this was going to be an uphill battle in perspecitve and I lean more to your viewpoint in any case, Wiz. I am just being a bit of a devil's advocate and trying to look at it from a totally different point of view. More than anything, I was curious as to how others see it or if it has ever been considered to be anything different than it already is.

[Ekki]

Interesting theme

IMO, as this is a fantasy game, I think the biological point of view is decided by zanz, who chooses what parts of the biology affect the game's creatures... I think every creature we summon is "sentient", since you only order them to do stuff, but you don't MAKE them do so, if you want to MAKE them do something, you have spells, like Immolation.

I guess, as the game regards, that you only say to the creatures "go, attack the other guy", since they attack every turn without you asking them to do so, and regularly you tell them "do your effect", while they are sentient... So frozen/delayed creatures, IMO, shouldn't make their skills