A dreaded suggestion regarding Immortality.

[Delreich]

Actually Bobcamel is somewhat right here. For Rain of Fire The code targets all creatures with an effect that does 3 damage. Its not a logical conclusion if you have played games like Magic where Targeting is strictly an act of picking a target but thats how it is in elements.

If you'd wish it not to target, a code change would have to be made.

What the code does shouldn't matter much at all, as what happens behind the scenes should stay behind the scenes.
It makes no sense for a rain of fire to target individual spots. You don't drop a biochemical bomb on an individual target either.

[bobcamel]

Yup, a biochemical bomb hits everything, except for things it can't hit 'cause you can't hit them 'cause they're out of this plane.

Look, if you want to make a status like this, name it Invisiblity.

Also, Immortals should be able to be damaged, just not be able to die out of this. Immortal, not Unwoundable.

[Lanidrak]

@Delreich: Precisely.

I feel like I'm laboring the point here but...

Ethereal's will be weak to two cards: Plague and Rain of Fire (global not specific target)
Immortals will be immune to damage, but vulnerable to a lot of other cards.

Quintessence can make an Immortal into an Ethereal. Apply these concepts to the Elements Game environment and you will realize that it opens up a niche in the 'already existing' game play - would require two minor distinctions and changes to creature statuses. But otherwise, already exists. It opens up a whole dimension of game strategy and synergies.

@bob, i've already suggested the invisibility, want me to link it to you?

@more at Bob:  The way I understand it is: The Ethereal creature cannot be specifically targeted, because it is in the Ether. But for it to do damage and inflict pain, and use abilities in the Real Dimension, a part of it has to be there. Now, a firebolt or a lightning strike are too precise to hit the tiny part of the ethereal creature in the Real Dimension, but a Rain of Fire or a Plague must affect it in some part.

@more at bob: if an immortal is wound-able, what would that achieve? You reduce its hitpoints but it has no reflection on its ability to wound you back. See my earlier post on Otyugh and Paradox... Simply to rewind an immortal creature when it 'dies' is pointless.

[bobcamel]

I know you did. So, where were we?

 : Invisible: Cannot be hit by specific target things, but area effects work.
 : Immortal: Cannot die due to any reason.
 : Immaterial: Cannot be targeted, no matter if the thing targets specifically or areally.

[Lanidrak]

@more at Bob:  The way I understand it is: The Ethereal creature cannot be specifically targeted, because it is in the Ether. But for it to do damage and inflict pain, and use abilities in the Real Dimension, a part of it has to be there. Now, a firebolt or a lightning strike are too precise to hit the tiny part of the ethereal creature in the Real Dimension, but a Rain of Fire or a Plague must affect it in some part.

@more at bob: if an immortal is wound-able, what would that achieve? You reduce its hitpoints but it has no reflection on its ability to wound you back. See my earlier post on Otyugh and Paradox... Simply to rewind an immortal creature when it 'dies' is pointless.

Lets rather stick with our distinction between two statuses before adding a third.

[Kael Hate]

I've had a long think about this and am starting to think that Immortal/Immaterial effect should remain the way it is. Unlike some other games playing creatures does not defend your life total and creature elimination tends be a one-sided effect in that he who gets to use it first will prevent the other from damaging him.

In Magic / L5r / Warcraft CCG / Jyhad aka Vampire and various other card games, you trade offensive vs defensive by commiting or choosing not to commit the creature and in a defensive action you may destroy the attacker or lose your defender. That does not exist in elements. Immortal/Immaterial should stay the way it is as a solution to open ended creature control.

[Delreich]

Yup, a biochemical bomb hits everything, except for things it can't hit 'cause you can't hit them 'cause they're out of this plane.

Look, if you want to make a status like this, name it Invisiblity.

If that was directed at me: I'm not arguing what your status does or what it's named, I'm just saying it needs a different wording.

Area of effect spells blast an area, they don't bother with targeting things in that area (other than maybe the one the area is centred around).
This is how it is in just about any game, from Final Fantasy Tactics to, yes, Magic.
All I'm saying is "cannot be targeted" doesn't match you explanation, so change the wording.


As for this whole topic, in my opinion Immateriality is fine as is, except for the wording.
Change the name of the Anubis/Quintessence effect to "immaterialize", change the description of the status to "is immune to common skills and spells" (see the description of burrow when selecting earth (http://www.elementsthegame.com/trainer.html) for where the "common" came from) and all would be fine.

[bobcamel]

It jumps back to the Material Plane only for the time when it is attacking. That's why it is affected by shields.

[Lucifear]

Rain of Fire targets every enemy creature. Get your "no target" and "target all" separated.

Also, as I linked...

 : Immortal: When reduced to 0 HP, this card is not removed from the field.
 : Immaterial: As it is now.

I really just think this is what Immortal needs to become. If we need to make an 'immaterial' status, that's fine. Immortal=not dying. So let yourself get down to -88 hp. Offers a strategy to the game....Just watch your -4 hp creature get lobotomized, and he dies....

[becarem]

The "Immortality" game mechanic used to be an end-all, be-all status.  There was nothing that could be done about it whatsoever.  (In fact, the reason I started carrying SoG were those pesky Immortals and Phase Dragons.)  That only one element had access to the creature status (even Anubis needed light blue) made Aether as a color OP enough to hamper further card creation for it.  Earth, which is very powerful when compared to certain elements, is so because it offers both the measure and countermeasure rainbow staples concerning destruction, Protect Artifact and Pulverizer.

I am very grateful for the changes made to immortality in creatures in this game, i.e. letting shields affect them.  I could debate why some shields make more or less sense for their abilities to hamper an immortal creature, but that is unimportant.  For now, there is actually soemthing that can be done about it.  Somewhat.

I would be in favor of a card which strips all "Immortal" status from the field when cast, for both parties, with whatever cost/color appropriate.  Make it a new Miracle, if you want...but it should include all of those protected permanents, as well; right now, the only things that are completely untargetable/unable to be dealt with are those items which your opponent has rendered inaccessible.  This would also neatly address the creature status of immortality, making it possible to become mortal

Granted, to balance this out might be hellish; destructive cards/effects of all types might have to be harder to pull off/more expensive to play.  But I think in the end it would be worth the inclusion of a card that might make some situations less futile.

[teffy]

The Greek Gods were immortal, as long as they drink Ambrosia. If not, they could become mortal.

Another Example:
Nicolas Flamel (Harry Potter I) was immortal, as long as he used the Philosopher´s Stone.
Why can´t there be conditions for being immortal?

[Boingo]

Ethereal's will be weak to two cards: Plague and Rain of Fire (global not specific target)

What about Thunderstorm?  Isn't that also an area of effect spell?
Should ethereal creatures gain from nightfall/eclipse if appropriate?