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Offline MathematisticTopic starter

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[New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg453432#msg453432
« on: January 27, 2012, 01:37:06 pm »
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32213.msg435752#msg435752

You guys might have seen that. Now it's revamped in details!

Here comes... CAMPAIGN MODE

Beginning

Players can pay a certain amount of electrum to start a new campaign.
They can choose 30 hand-picked cards from their own inventory, and start with 200 atoms (campaign mode currency) as well as 30 random cards.

Gameplay-in turns

*The term ‘turn’ will refer to the cycle below instead of the turns in elements (i.e. the ‘turn’ in turns to win, one turn kill etc are not applicable here)

1. The player can customise his/her deck. The campaign mode inventory will be different from the original inventory of the player. The game will be auto-saved here.

2. The player can go to the shop at any time before fighting. Here the player can buy different things with atoms, such as cards (1 electrum=1 atom scale, rare cards/nymphs can appear too, according to their buy price in trainer), HP recovery (have different values, +10% price for every purchase), max hp increase (10/20 points each, fixed price, probably 200/350), Marks (adds +1 mark, worth as much as a nymph), upgrade a card, buy a random card (all upped/all unupped/random, you know what I mean if you’ve played Tukkun FCG in anti-idle…) permanent +1% recycling rate, 1-game effects (e.g. your opponent starts with a smaller hand this turn, your opponent has 10 less hp this turn, +10% recycling rate, ensures that you start first etc., effect sustains in 1 game only). Note that 10 items will be randomly chosen to be put in the shop every turn, and will reshuffle every turn. Some options should appear less than some others in order to maintain balance (e.g. perma-boosts). The shop owner may also want specific cards from you, exchanging them with atoms. Recycling rate will be explained later.

3. 4 enemies of different stats are generated. The player can choose to battle either one of them. In the selection screen, the hp, mark (and number of marks), the deck size, whether dexterity is present, number of spins that the player can receive after winning, number of atoms rewarded, score points rewarded, a brief description of the enemy deck (e.g. this elemental focuses on summoning powerful creatures to overwhelm his opponent or this elemental will not hesitate in destroying your artifacts with her vicious skills )and certain rare cards/special rewards (permanent boost in recycling rate, hp recovery etc) if the battle is a boss fight (which occurs from time to time) are displayed. They will become tougher and tougher as time goes by.

4. The fight goes on as usual. You start with the same health and max health from last around, plus the recoveries/special items you bought. The cards that you used in the battle has a 50% recycling rate (i.e. 50% chance to return to you, unlike the 100% in normal elements battles). The recycling rate, as mentioned before, can be augmented by various means.

5. Winning a battle gives you score, atoms, X spins for salvage (all of which will gradually increase as you passed more and more levels), and special rewards (if applicable). Then, you can choose to go back to step 1 or end campaign. End campaign will be explained later.

6. If you lose a battle, your current score, amount of atoms will be reduced by 30%, while your cards will be lost with accordance to your current recycling rate (i.e. assume that they’re all used in a battle). Recycling rate is reset to 50%, that means all the boosts on recycling you gained are lost. You can then choose to continue (goto 1), which increases your continue counter by 1, or end campaign.

7. There’s only 1 save slot. The save is destroyed if the player resumes to it, or if the player ends campaign. Save/load exploits are strictly prohibited in this way, so every fight is a gamble… mind your step. Only 1 campaign can be active at a time.

End Campaign

So you’re frustrated and want to end the campaign. The final score is computed by score+0.5*atoms+2*number of cards (rare cards count as 2 cards, nymphs count as 3, and is converted to electrum in a 10 to 1 scale, as well as rewarding random rares. The amount of rares will be determined by final score, in an exponential scale. (like 10000-1 rare, 20000-2 rares, 40000-3 rares, 80000-4 rares etc.).

Shamelessly borrowed from DW5 XL

P.S. Don’t be fooled by my username. I’m not really good at math and cannot determine most of the numbers… maybe beta testing can help figuring them out?
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

Offline teffy

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Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg453571#msg453571
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 09:04:02 pm »
This idea looks really complicated , vague and ... where is the fun ? For the developer and the player !
It´s not fun to rebuilt decks several times from heart and rebuy cards.
It´s not fun, that versatile EM decks are ftw (mainly rainbows)
It´s not fun because of reasons I can´t imagine.

And does the player lose the 50% of the deck in the real inventory, too ?
If yes: Poor players who own nymphs or upgraded cards.
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Offline MathematisticTopic starter

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Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg453692#msg453692
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 03:28:30 am »
This idea looks really complicated , vague and ... where is the fun ? For the developer and the player !
It´s not fun to rebuilt decks several times from heart and rebuy cards.
It´s not fun, that versatile EM decks are ftw (mainly rainbows)
It´s not fun because of reasons I can´t imagine.

And does the player lose the 50% of the deck in the real inventory, too ?
If yes: Poor players who own nymphs or upgraded cards.
This mode features a completely different inventory...
You need to rebuild decks with what you have left in the campaign mode inventory, which is more fun than building a deck with no restrictions. (limited deck building is one of the reasons why wars are fun pvp events)
The "heals", "Vampires", "Stone Skins", "supernovas" will eventually run out due to the non-100% recycling rate... and you'll have to buy them back in the campaign mode shop.
Poor players are not really affected in a way that they only have to pay a cost to enter the mode (as well as pick 30 cards from their card pool that they want to start with in that mode) , and from that point onward electrum isn't the concern already. They lose nothing apart from the entry cost.
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

Offline Sevs

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Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg453811#msg453811
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 09:31:36 am »
It would be kinda cool to follow the lines of a random starting deck and then having to work towards a target deck. And after each stage you can switch out 2 cards from your deck and a card pool. so your deck will always be changing and should be kinda difficult
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Offline MathematisticTopic starter

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Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg453821#msg453821
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 09:49:36 am »
It would be kinda cool to follow the lines of a random starting deck and then having to work towards a target deck. And after each stage you can switch out 2 cards from your deck and a card pool. so your deck will always be changing and should be kinda difficult
Even if you get your target deck, part of it would be lost after a battle.

You need to piece up a good deck from a constantly changing card pool, against opponents with increasing difficulty. That's the challenge that EtG needs to keep us hooked on it apart from pvp events.
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

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Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454368#msg454368
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2012, 01:48:58 pm »
The recycling is most flawed in the whole plan, otherwise the system would be quite good.

People would not like to lose cards too often so I present this solution

  • Spells: Every spell you play have a 50% chance to be lost
  • Creatures: Every killed creature is automatically lost, Every surviving creature on the field is kept
  • Permanents: Every surviving permanent has 25% chance to be lost, Every destroyed permanent has 75% chance to be lost (Just forget nymph's tears, ok?)
  • General: Every card left in hand has 50% chance to be lost (fractal, mindgate, nightmare excepted)
  • Rares: Rares' loss chance are automatically lowered by 25%; Imported Nymphs cannot be lost
  • Bought Cards: Exceptional case, explained below
[li]


2. After the game, there is a report of your card losses

3. You may buy back your lost rares at double price; Imported nymphs cannot be lost; Nymphs bought in the campaign bazaar will be lost

4. You get 6 spins, the first 3 are standard spins, the rest choose from a pool of your lost cards, each slot can be spun for 5 times each spin, you can reclaim you card when they meet
[/li][/list]

Offline MathematisticTopic starter

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Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454371#msg454371
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 01:59:49 pm »
    The recycling is most flawed in the whole plan, otherwise the system would be quite good.

    People would not like to lose cards too often so I present this solution

    • Spells: Every spell you play have a 50% chance to be lost
    • Creatures: Every killed creature is automatically lost, Every surviving creature on the field is kept
    • Permanents: Every surviving permanent has 25% chance to be lost, Every destroyed permanent has 75% chance to be lost (Just forget nymph's tears, ok?)
    • General: Every card left in hand has 50% chance to be lost (fractal, mindgate, nightmare excepted)
    • Rares: Rares' loss chance are automatically lowered by 25%; Imported Nymphs cannot be lost
    • Bought Cards: Exceptional case, explained below
    [li]


    2. After the game, there is a report of your card losses

    3. You may buy back your lost rares at double price; Imported nymphs cannot be lost; Nymphs bought in the campaign bazaar will be lost

    4. You get 6 spins, the first 3 are standard spins, the rest choose from a pool of your lost cards, each slot can be spun for 5 times each spin, you can reclaim you card when they meet
    [/li][/list]
    The new card loss mode should be better than the uniform card loss. Thanks!

    Cards that you imported won't be lost anyways, and the rares/nymphs that you won from spins/bought from shop should be gone forever IMO.

    To clarify:

    Cost of this mode = electrum
    Rewards of this mode = electrum + rares (maybe in the form of arena rare spins) after end campaign

    Also, constantly losing cards from the campaign mode inventory and gaining cards from your opponents deck (the X salvage spins are most likely to be way more than 3) so that you have to piece up the best you have for your deck is the aim of this mode... Limited yet constantly changing card pool gives more fun.
    PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
    If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

    Offline Aves

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    Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454571#msg454571
    « Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 12:05:00 am »
    I would love to see something like this, even without a reward. However, I can't imagine it would be too hard to get 10k final score-maybe a special spin like in arena instead of a direct reward?
    In addition, how much space would this take if every elements player had a campaign?
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    Offline MathematisticTopic starter

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    Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454656#msg454656
    « Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 05:35:36 am »
    I would love to see something like this, even without a reward. However, I can't imagine it would be too hard to get 10k final score-maybe a special spin like in arena instead of a direct reward?
    In addition, how much space would this take if every elements player had a campaign?
    As I've said, I'm not sure about the numbers... Although I can say for sure that the battles in campaign mode will reward as much in-game score as in arena (which is the best place for scoregrind).
    You have a separate inventory, a shop that re-randomises its products every game turn, 4 enemies that re-randomises their stats (of course, increases with the turns you survived) every turn for you to choose. Their decks are picked like AI4 (though with different cardpools in contrary to the set 2-element pool for half blood). I guess it should be around 50% of the main game... Bigger than arena, but I think it would be worth it. At least this mode can get us hooked for a few months, as every play is different.
    I think it's similar to every elements player opening an alt AND running them at the same time.
    PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
    If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

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    Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454663#msg454663
    « Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 06:11:35 am »
    Eh...my only real dislike of this is it forces a rainbow most of the time. Because of the loss of cards and the need to replace them, monos, duos, and the already unstable trios and quartets will fall apart. While I do believe making different decks and being flexible is to be encouraged, i dont think that means everyone should be running rainbows.

    To address this, give decks a "safety" if they consist of fewer elements (example, 10-20% higher recycle for monos)
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    Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454670#msg454670
    « Reply #10 on: January 30, 2012, 06:21:53 am »
    Eh...my only real dislike of this is it forces a rainbow most of the time. Because of the loss of cards and the need to replace them, monos, duos, and the already unstable trios and quartets will fall apart. While I do believe making different decks and being flexible is to be encouraged, i dont think that means everyone should be running rainbows.

    To address this, give decks a "safety" if they consist of fewer elements (example, 10-20% higher recycle for monos)
    Maybe like: If 40% of your deck is made up of one element, cards of that element has 10% more recycling rate.
    Not more than that or everyone will be making monos or duos.
    PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
    If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

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    Re: [New Game Mode suggestion] Extreme Mode V2 - Campaign Mode https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=36067.msg454678#msg454678
    « Reply #11 on: January 30, 2012, 06:30:29 am »
    Eh...my only real dislike of this is it forces a rainbow most of the time. Because of the loss of cards and the need to replace them, monos, duos, and the already unstable trios and quartets will fall apart. While I do believe making different decks and being flexible is to be encouraged, i dont think that means everyone should be running rainbows.

    To address this, give decks a "safety" if they consist of fewer elements (example, 10-20% higher recycle for monos)
    Maybe like: If 40% of your deck is made up of one element, cards of that element has 10% more recycling rate.
    Not more than that or everyone will be making monos or duos.
    True. Im sure beta testing could find a reasonable percent. They just need a boost
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