Upcoming changes to "Card Ideas" section

[cthulhu]

A newbie could beat you, or PuppyChow

I beg to disagree. My record is 1337 wins, 0 losses. I'm unbeatable.

Anyway, I have to agree with Kami here. /Late to party

See, but you can never play again now, or your record will change.

[Boingo]

You are absolutely right about the name "Approved Card Ideas". It does sound way too much like those cards are just waiting to be added into the game, and my inbox in going to full of posts from people asking why their card ideas are not in the game.

Can you just change the name to "Approvable Card Ideas" so as not to imply that the cards have actually been accepted into the game?  Or, perhaps, "Properly formatted card ideas" (which would be infinitely less catchy) if that is what the section is meant to include.

[ufcfan]

   There are some very good suggestions being brought up from different viewpoints in this thread and I believe that is a large part of what will make this community better.  I have a score of over 24k but I feel I know very little about this game outside of the rainbow deck I use.  I have just recently started posting and reading the forums to gain more knowledge about the game as a whole and to further my own enjoyment of it.
    What I am finding right now is that there is not enough people in the forum section as there should be.  The more people we have participating in the forums the better we will all be(unless you are a MOD ), and right now anything that will bring more people into the game and into the forums is a top priority in my mind, even above my personal beliefs. 
    I happen to agree with Kael that brand new people who know nothing about this game could cause some problems, however, this community will not grow at a sufficient rate if new people do not feel a sense of empowerment and community.  This isn't NASA where we have to have only the top minds making decisions, this is a game(albeit the greatest game I have ever played) and the more ideas we have, the higher chance we will have of getting incredible ideas that will make this game even better.
    I strongly believe that Zan deserves to make a small fortune from this game and that will only happen with more and more people playing.  Bad card ideas will probably be put through but they can always be tweaked, dramatically if need be, to keep this game as the best one out there.

[xdude]

ufcfan, I REALLY doubt any Mod would hate to see this community growing. ALL of them are great people 

[Xinef]

It's good that Scaredgirl does not want to make this forum elitist and as much as I understand the vision of Kael Hate, I think it would only harm the community.

We can say there are ignorant people, inexperienced newbies, uneducated people, call them whatever you like... but in fact everyone of us is ignorant at times, everyone has some experience in some things and little experience in something else... I'm pretty sure there are people with over 50k score or over 100 posts who have little knowledge of how to balance card effects, as well as people who have experience in other CCGs, or simply don't grind much, so even with low score and/or low post count they can be the most experienced people around here.

In fact there are no 'experienced players', 'newbies' and 'ignorant n00bs' categories as some of you probably want to think there are. It's more like people with different levels of experience and with different degrees of ignorance... or in fact something even more complex. It's fuzzy logic... thingy... and any way to place strict borders to separate people into elite and newbie categories, or whatever, only tries to make the world seem less complex than it really is.

The only real border there is is the division between developers and community. Zanz is the only person who decides if some card idea really gets into the game or not, so I'm pretty sure no stupid ideas will be implemented, no matter how popular they are within the community...
I think there is no need for a group of 'experienced' people who decide if a card idea is good or not... but rather a group of people chosen by Zanz to check if a card idea has potential to be implemented or not, so that Zanz does not need to spend time evaluating every card idea himself. But this group of people cannot be chosen based on their score/post count/PvP experience/whatever... these people need to be chosen by Zanz himself, because they are to represent his view of what fits the game and what does not.

And I think in this case, it makes more sense to make a subforum of cards that have been approved as fitting the game settings, so that people can vote which ones should be implemented first, and to gain more attention to these cards so that they can be throughly discussed, balanced, etc. before being implemented.
If I understand correctly, the idea right now is to separate card ideas that fit some requirements, but do not necessarily have a better chance of getting into the game... which makes little sense to me...
If someone has a great card idea, but does not have the time or artistic skill to make some art, or whatever to make the card fit the requirements, but the card fits the game settings, then it's as simple as someone else adding necessary things like art or balancing.
If a card does not fit the game, then no matter how elaborately the idea is developed, it should not be developed, nor should it gain attention.
In my opinion there should be a subforum of cards that are really going to get into the game (because they fit), and people could vote which ones are to be implemented first. This should make it clear so that people are not PMing Scaredgirl 'why is my card not implemented yet?'

This is my opinion on the topic. If you (the elite) do not like it, then... oh I guess I wasn't right anyway

[ScytherLoL]

My sincere apoligies to all that I have been away for so long. I will now talk a little about my experience in coming to this forum and how I started making card ideas.

My first card idea was a Dark Wizard combo I was looking for something that would complement what I already used. Having some experience in the game I put forward my idea as it was and was happy to see that as a new poster I was fairly recevied by all.

The crux of it was that I had come up with a card that was fraught with minor issues but as a whole as an idea it was on the right track.

Through the later months I went ahead and expounded on that making new cards of which some pushed the envelope somewhat in what is achieveable by the current engine and herein lies some of the issues I have found.

 1. I had little understanding of the programming mechanic behind the game so at times put forward ideas that would break this code or be unusable.

 2. I found the letters OP attached to many cards I put forward even when I had explained why they had been designed like that.

 3. I found that as a whole the community was supportive of my attempts and in the main gave good advice to help me.

Ok so that said what are my conclusions?

As I have read through this and other threads it has come to my attention that sometimes people find that they believe they have the answer and thus the go on to take this high horse attitude into the threads that a person of inexpereince has began. The most frustrating thing for me on this is that few of these individuals have a full understanding of the game so why berate them for that. My point in this is that finding the right people to assist in Card Making is not just about having the best Mechanic Minds but also about being able to educate in a positive manner. That seems to be the thing most lacking in some of the discussions. As a whole our community is amazing at supporting the individuals that choose to post but sometime a few let down the many.

Personally i support the idea of having some people to assist building and developing the cards. These people will in no way dictate the terms or conditions of making the cards but would encourage and educate those who dip their feet into the water. Remembering that although this game has simlarites to other CCG's it still stands alone so some of those mechanics will not work here.

So. In getting back to the topic on hand I support Scaredgirls decision to step down the road she has chosen and will follow her in that vein. I also have listened to much of what Kael Hate has said both here and elsewhere and do believe that at times he has it right in wanting to educate but finding a medium to do this properly is the issue at hand. I do not believe an elite group is needed. I believe a group of people who have the emotional intelligence to suport and encourage is what is more needed in this forum for all ideas no matter how much they may seem to be out there have some merit. It is a fact that through the Card Ideas thread there are many ideas that were cast aside in their first inception but when you look at later cards you find that same mechanic has been taken, advanced rehoned and remade into something that is workable.

I thank everyone for their concern on this matter and encourage you all to continue on your path to discovering the Cards within you.

Thankyou

Scyther

[Scaredgirl]

Personally i support the idea of having some people to assist building and developing the cards. These people will in no way dictate the terms or conditions of making the cards but would encourage and educate those who dip their feet into the water. Remembering that although this game has simlarites to other CCG's it still stands alone so some of those mechanics will not work here.

So. In getting back to the topic on hand I support Scaredgirls decision to step down the road she has chosen and will follow her in that vein. I also have listened to much of what Kael Hate has said both here and elsewhere and do believe that at times he has it right in wanting to educate but finding a medium to do this properly is the issue at hand. I do not believe an elite group is needed. I believe a group of people who have the emotional intelligence to suport and encourage is what is more needed in this forum for all ideas no matter how much they may seem to be out there have some merit. It is a fact that through the Card Ideas thread there are many ideas that were cast aside in their first inception but when you look at later cards you find that same mechanic has been taken, advanced rehoned and remade into something that is workable.

Welcome back. We thought you had been eaten by a bear.

This support group thing sounds pretty good. It's much better than assuming that all the new players are idiots.

I was thinking something like this:

STAGE 0 - Unapproved Card Ideas
This is how the ideas are posted now. It would basically be a "lobby" where we get rid of all the bad apples. All other stages have their own sub-category. Card ideas that meet the minimum requirements of quality (image etc.) and all the necessary information go to next stage.

STAGE 1 - Approved Card Ideas
How "good" the idea is, isn't a factor in getting to this stage. To make the idea better, "Support Group" works together with the card maker (and the rest of the community) to refine the card idea and move it to the next stage when ready. There might also be a vote, who knows.

STAGE 2 - Refined Card Ideas
Every week all the new card ideas that reach this stage, will be put on a vote. Winner goes to last stage.

STAGE 3 - Hall of Fame
All the stage 2 ideas voted best by the community. Best of the Best.


Something like that..

[ScytherLoL]

Sorry about that I had a relapse and it didn;'t go well. My apoligies for the hassle. (although eaten by a bear sounds much better...)

Ok so stages:

Stage 0
I like this as the introductory phase allowing anyone to post an idea regardless of what it is. This enables everyone to participate and feel a part of the community and to have a valued contribution. This is the most important stage i believe as it is here where the first contact is made and if not handled well could end up in many of the community not putting forward that great idea hidden away behind the other cards.

Stage 1
Ok so heres where I see the Support team coming into it. Here we discuss the cards at hand talking about how they work, why they work and how they could fit in the game. This is where mechanics etc come into it and people get a chance to critique in a valued contribution. The idea here being that it goes through a level of encouragement and education thus enabling the card creator to better achieve the goal they had in mind for the card. Maybe this is where the crucible idea comes into it's own. Not as a finished product in anyway but as a start taking out the not so good qualities of each card and refining them into ones that fit more along the lines of the engine we have at our disposal. Always keeping in mind that at any point Zanzarino can reach down and say "great card I can make it fit" so although we will encourage fitting within the current format it may be possible to go outside this so not to be too pandantic about it.

Stage 2
Here is where the true forging seems to be planned. Not only is this a vote but also a time to have the last say. Individuals whose cards have come this far will expect that here is where the hard words are spoken about what has to change or be re\worked. It is not to say that you will be destroyed during this process but here is the oppurtunity to hit the nail on the head, strike while the iron is hot and fully encourage the card to it's supremacy.

Stage 3
Best of the Best I like this idea and hope it can be worked it provides people with ideas and inspiration for cards and also will show the evolution of a card through to being a winner. I think that is important that the whol thread becomes available so people can see how the basic card becomes the uber card over time through the support of the community. This also provides an easy place for Zanzarino to check for new ideas and dip his hand into the pool of comments whithout having to trawl through reams of ideas (he may even participate from Stage 2 on)

So in short mayhap we could name the areas as follows:

Stage 0: Smithy
Stage 1: Crucible
Stage 2: Forgery
Stage 3: Armoury

Or something along those lines but I am unsure so far.

Thanks

Scyther

[Scaredgirl]

Stage 0: Smithy
Stage 1: Crucible
Stage 2: Forgery
Stage 3: Armoury

Hm.. why not.

I'm generally against non-descriptive theme names like that and prefer things like "Approved Cards" because you get the idea instantly but I guess we could make an exception here. The numbers in the name indicate a "level" so I guess it's clear enough. And I like the idea of "forging" the card idea.

One thing though.. no need to name Stage 0 because it's the "lobby" of "Card Ideas".

Secondly that "Crucible" is something 99% of non-native English speakers have never even heard of, so it might not be the best choice.

[icybraker]

So, you would substitute "Smithy" for "Crucible" and get rid of Level 0 in general? Sounds good.

I just wanted to say that this tiered system sounds very clean and organized, and I fully support it.

[Kamietsu]

I agree with SG. I'm a native english speaker and barely know that word, thanks to the one day I actually payed attention in english class

[Bloodshadow]

I don't really agree with SG. There is the mythical tome of arcane knowledge called the Dictionary. As an immigrant from China, I had to use that a lot in my first two years in Canada.