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Offline vrt

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  • vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.vrt soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41228#msg41228
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 11:21:34 pm »
It's funny how people feel 'limited' without knowing a damn thing about the art yet.
So long and thanks for all the fish!

Scaredgirl

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41231#msg41231
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2010, 11:23:50 pm »
What is the point of images if we're all only allowed to use one image? Then it's better to simply not put any images, because looking at the same image seventeen times will only annoy me.

This could be an option for a specific type of contest (e.g. Design a Card using This Image), but I disagree that all contests should be like this.
I already explained the point in my original post.

PhantomFox

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41320#msg41320
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2010, 02:16:05 am »
Really?  Where?  You mentioned that having a standard image is good, but not why an image is needed period.  Since it doesn't change from entry to entry, having it is pointless.  And doesn't Zanz make his own images, or get a fan/player to make it for him?

Scaredgirl

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41326#msg41326
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2010, 02:21:06 am »
Really?  Where?  You mentioned that having a standard image is good, but not why an image is needed period.  Since it doesn't change from entry to entry, having it is pointless.  And doesn't Zanz make his own images, or get a fan/player to make it for him?
Read my post again.

PhantomFox

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41341#msg41341
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2010, 02:54:59 am »
I did.  And if Zanz likes to make original art for the cards, I still don't see what you're referring to.

Scaredgirl

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41344#msg41344
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2010, 03:06:22 am »
I did.  And if Zanz likes to make original art for the cards, I still don't see what you're referring to.
You do know that some of the new card art (like Phoenix, Mummy and Pharaoh) was made by our own Mr. vrt, right?

You do know that vrt started a new card competition (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4192.0.html) today using these rules and an image he donated to be used in Elements, right?

You see it now?

PhantomFox

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41363#msg41363
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2010, 04:18:38 am »
Yes and no.  Are you saying that ALL future competitions will follow this format?  If not, ignore the following.  If so, we're risking making competition a "Caption This:" affair.

Competitive-wise, there's no point of having a picture at all if there can't be big differences.  If X+Y > Z+Y, then X > Z where X and Z are card ideas, and Y is the predefined art.

Aesthetically, yes, Zanz can use fan-art.  But he's only getting one image from each competition.  If he doesn't like it, having the image was pointless.  While it saves work for him, the picture partly defines and limits the idea.  Would this be a fair trade-off? 
For example, let's imagine that we used this format for the weapons competition.  The most flexible stock picture would be, off the top of my head, a glowing sword, since you can slap a lot of ideas to it.  Perhaps with various tints ala the fountains in the new competition.  But an ability such as the (currently) 2nd Place Boomerang might have not shown up, as a throwing a sword is a good way to disarm yourself.  Perhaps an enchanted returning sword, maybe, but the idea would be less likely to have come up as people are thinking "Sword". 

Let's use another example.  Let's say we have a creature competition.  Is the stock picture creature big?  Small?  Pretty?  Ugly?  Humanoid?  Quadruped?  Etc.  Making the creature generic enough to suit all possible ideas would likely make it unusable as an actual card.  Permanents share the same problem, as the variety of objects is almost limitless.  Spells you might be able to get away with this.


In short, a picture and the corresponding idea are tied together.  If one is constrained, the other is as well.  Is this worth the benefit of having a card ready-to-go?

And again, if you're just using this to supplement the existing competition types, then the above doesn't apply.  Though if you want to avoid image bias, text-only may be the only way to go.

omerbey

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41423#msg41423
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2010, 07:47:46 am »
I agree with phantomfox completely.
If you are so bothered with art being important I think you have some other options:

- ditch the democratic voting system completely. Have a jury.
- make it text only.
- make it mspaint only.

etc.

Offline pepokish

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41440#msg41440
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2010, 10:04:48 am »
I'm not sure what all this talk of "limiting ideas" is, because I have seen some of the most creative entries in this competition, so far.  On the contrary to what everyone seems to think, an image which you would not have otherwise used might actually inspire new creative ideas which may never have been thought of, before. 

I like this idea.  I consider the 'single image' idea to be fodder for creativity -- not fencing. 

In any case, Scaredgirl said quite clearly in her first post that this would be something new that we would try.  So all you nay-sayers, at least give the competition a try, and give your constructive criticism afterward.  Otherwise, you just end up looking like a bunch of stubborn neophobes.

omerbey

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41529#msg41529
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2010, 03:12:28 pm »
I am not in any way used to the old ways, so it's impossible for me to be a neophobe  ::)

I think stating opinions and reasoning without resorting to name calling would be more mature...

Scaredgirl

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41553#msg41553
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2010, 04:07:53 pm »
I agree with phantomfox completely.
If you are so bothered with art being important I think you have some other options:

- ditch the democratic voting system completely. Have a jury.
- make it text only.
- make it mspaint only.

etc.
I don't like the jury idea because that implies that some members' opinions are valued more than others. Everyone in the community should be able to vote on these.

Text only, like I already said, is boring, and boring = less interest in the competition. Also having no images means Zanz would have to do the image by himself, instead of one provided to him.

MS Paint would make the whole thing a big joke.


The key here (that many people have missed) is that the art used in these competitions can be used in Elements for free!


I am not in any way used to the old ways, so it's impossible for me to be a neophobe  ::)

I think stating opinions and reasoning without resorting to name calling would be more mature...
First of all, she didn't reply to you specifically.

Secondly, we've had complainers ruin ideas and events in the past, which sucks for everyone. It's always better to try things first and then see how it is, instead of talking theory for days.

PhantomFox

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Re: New format for card idea competitions https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4166.msg41560#msg41560
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2010, 04:14:24 pm »
Sure.  Let's try it.  But I reserve the right to say "I told you so"

Even so, at least keep my points in mind, or challenge them.  I hope you do not simply ignore them if  you don't like them.

As to the person who said that a standard image fosters creativity.  Well, it does, but only in a specific direction.  You will dig deeper in that direction, true, but all the OTHER areas where ideas come from are untouched.

 

blarg: