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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144512#msg144512
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2010, 01:05:01 am »
I nominate, well, myself! ;D

PuppyChow

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144518#msg144518
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2010, 01:15:21 am »
I love this idea. Dictatorship -> Representative Democracy/Parliamentary System/Aristocracy/???.


Maybe we should make something like the Declaration of Independence? A Constitution w/ Bill of Rights? Maybe an Elements holiday to commemorate the independence? Do we have any lawyers that can write that sort of thing? Should we get lobbyists of some kind from different elements factions? Maybe divide the Elements community into states/provinces and let each get 2 electoral votes for a candidate? And of course, we need two different parties. Conservative and Democrats could be the two main ones of course.

 :P


I also see no problems with a large council; it isn't like every member of the council has to vote if we put a time limit on decisions.

Offline tinkady

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144591#msg144591
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2010, 03:16:22 am »
eh i'm not sure if having an insanely large council would do any good...maybe just staff+masters+one elected rep? or how about its bigger but staff+masters have much higher powers

Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144603#msg144603
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2010, 03:44:26 am »
I don't see why all 12 masters should be on board, the title is little more than an e-penis enhancement and doesn't speak for the person's ability to think things through outside of the game.

Just my 2 cents.
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On something completely unrelated to his statement, I nominate myself for the council  :P

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144633#msg144633
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2010, 04:49:42 am »
This title thread should be called: "Elements Council - A New Way to ORGANIZE the Community". Rule implies that you're just going to have more 'dissenters' who feel that they deserve the job/they could do a better job 'ruling' the community/etc.  ;)

That said, when you say that one of the council's tasks is to 'decide the bigger picture' of the forum events and other ideas, does this mean that certain sections already controlled by staff members (Event Organizers, Card Curators, PVP/Tournament/League Organizers, etc.) have to get approval by the Council in order to improve their own management?

Example:
-Suppose a staff member actually finds a new way to organize a part of the forum section, and spreads the word that the changes will occur soon. Do they:

a) do what they need to do to organize,

or

b) ask the council for their opinions first for them to 'determine if it's good for the overall picture/future of the forum', then act accordingly based on their decision?


Offline tyranim

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144636#msg144636
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2010, 04:59:10 am »
i would gladly sign up for the council. though i still dont know if it will be for the master title, staff (still dont know about this one), or elect.
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MrBlonde

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144669#msg144669
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2010, 06:40:41 am »
I don't see why all 12 masters should be on board, the title is little more than an e-penis enhancement and doesn't speak for the person's ability to think things through outside of the game.

Just my 2 cents.
I actually quite agree with VRT here. Being Master (currently anyways) seems more of an honorary thing. But with how ScaredGirl has been evolving the trials it has given opportunity for the Masters to have more of a voice. Perhaps give Masters half votes?

Scaredgirl

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144682#msg144682
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2010, 07:20:34 am »
This title thread should be called: "Elements Council - A New Way to ORGANIZE the Community". Rule implies that you're just going to have more 'dissenters' who feel that they deserve the job/they could do a better job 'ruling' the community/etc.  ;)

That said, when you say that one of the council's tasks is to 'decide the bigger picture' of the forum events and other ideas, does this mean that certain sections already controlled by staff members (Event Organizers, Card Curators, PVP/Tournament/League Organizers, etc.) have to get approval by the Council in order to improve their own management?

Example:
-Suppose a staff member actually finds a new way to organize a part of the forum section, and spreads the word that the changes will occur soon. Do they:

a) do what they need to do to organize,

or

b) ask the council for their opinions first for them to 'determine if it's good for the overall picture/future of the forum', then act accordingly based on their decision?
Yea, you are right about the topic name. It definitely suggest that the council has more power than they actually will have.

If we take card curating as an example, you won't need to get any kind of approval from the council.

Main job of the council will be to decide
A) How many staff members are needed
B) Who is hired/fired

One other example of what council could do would be something like the Deck Archive. Maybe some council member had an idea to build a Deck Archive. They would then have a discussion about how to implement it, have a vote, then go ahead with the idea.

But the last example brings up my main concern about this whole project. Let me explain.

Most of us have been brainwashed that democracy is some kind of flawless, fair and perfect system. The fact is that democracy, like all other forms of government, fail because humans fail. Corruption, different motives, not enough information, being dumb, etc. all these severely affect the effectiveness of democracy. People who are not qualified to make certain decisions, are given the power to do so.

For example if you run a country and have to make some kind of big medical decisions that concerns everyone (like for example vaccines), you don't have a democratic vote where you ask every single person their opinion because those people are not qualified to make that decision.

We don't have vaccines on this forum, but we have things like forum navigation usability. This is an example of something that the council will not decide because most of them are not qualified to do so. It takes years of web design (or something similar) experience to fully understand usability, and I don't want this forum to turn out to be Homer Simpson's website (
).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the less technical and less "easy" the decision is, the more likely it is that the Council will decide it. Recruiting is a good example because anyone can do it basically as it mostly has a lot to do with social contacts (something all of us have) and who is an active member.

Everyday decisions are done by staff members who run their dedicated sections. Technical forum stuff are done by me. In both of these cases, the Council can of course suggest things, but it cannot intervene in all things and basically have the ultimate power.

Offline Daytripper

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Organize the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144707#msg144707
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2010, 08:37:48 am »
Funny, because I've seen many forums that work like this.

My ideas:

You seriously do not want over 5 council members if you mean these people are going to vote on something or take decisions. They will take over a week easy on 1 thing. It's a forum and we can trust the experienced guys to do what they can. This is not about life or death, and constant polls to ask the members only slow you down.

Staff:

36 or even 24 + 5 council = 29 is a large number. I suggest, don't do it. Managing the people and keeping them useful will drive you nuts. You can't exactly call them into a conference room. Getting people all in chat at the same time usually does not work either. That means you will mostly be relying on pms and forum announcements to get the message across. You never know if people actually did something until they reply back to you though.

I'd say start with a max. of 3 officials under every council member, then every council member has a managable number. That is still 5 council and 15 people = 20.

Just my thoughts. Start small and see how it goes. If you give people a post while they have very little to do, you'll be losing them pretty quickly too. So you need to keep them busy and you always have to keep talking to them. 



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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Organize the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144747#msg144747
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2010, 11:21:00 am »
I'll gladly help :)

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Organize the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144846#msg144846
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2010, 02:47:32 pm »
I'm amazed with this idea. SG knows I am a frank and outspoken supporter of collective decisions.

I could say however this nearly contradicts this quote by SG...

I'd like to talk about something I've come across to. Seems like there are some individuals who feel that all decisions related to forum events or forums in general should be done by some kind of community wide vote. Often when I change the rules of some event or introduce something new, I hear some people wanting a community wide vote about it. That's not how an organization should be run.
... and regardless, would fully like to see this idea implemented.
Good job SG. I look forward to seeing this idea face the daily hassles every new ideas face, and seeing it gloriously survive.

Consider me in when it comes to applying. ;)
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Offline Planplan

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Re: Elements Council - A New Way To Rule the Community https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11743.msg144852#msg144852
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2010, 02:58:53 pm »
I don't see why all 12 masters should be on board, the title is little more than an e-penis enhancement and doesn't speak for the person's ability to think things through outside of the game.
That's what I think too. Plus, they could change often. The Masters could be in the council of course, but not because they are Masters. And some could refuse such participations too.
The number could be big, it'll speed up decisions because of a more spread voices, so, more vote quicker. On the other hand, some here are big talker and having too many people talking or debating on a subject could slow everything.

 

anything
blarg: