Building of Deck Archive has started!

[killsdazombies]

If you need any help with deck helper im all for helping (only one day a week do i actually do PVP tournaments so i can prolly handle both jobs) at least until you find another person

[Scaredgirl]

I mean, level 5 would supposedly be the best decks, right? Then there would be no "best" (optimized) decks for T50/PvP2/PvP1/Etc, which is hardly a good thing.

Not best. Popular. "Best decks" would mean we had to do that extremely complicated voting thing.

If there are no mono-decks in level 3, it only tells the visitor that these decks are not that popular, which is the truth.

Newbs would automatically go to level 5, and see nothing, go to level 4, see nothing, and go to level 3, see nothing, so check level 2, where they *might* (low chance) be 1-2 decks, and think "well those can't be that good either, since they're only on level two"... and immediately lose hope in the decks . Okay, I'm stretching it, but that's the point.

Naturally these high level topics would be made only when there is something to actually put there. No point in starting blank topics now is there?

[slovenc555]

Well... I could do that poll thing... really, for any deck popular enough. or any deck, really.  You know, I'm a helpful person *cry* I DESERVE LOVE!!!

[Scaredgirl]

I scrapped the original plan because it looked like crap when the "levels" got all mixed up (not keeping a descending order). Also it would have been a nightmare to keep it up-to-date.

We will now have only 2 topics in each section, upgraded decks and non-upgraded decks. Each topic holds a maximum of 20 decks that have the most replies.

I think this new system works much better and is easy to keep up-to-date.

[slovenc555]

Well, mazbie if the deck would be horrible, and it got the most replies because people complained about the false statistics it wouldn't be the best Idea to archive it. I think that decks would need to be filtered on preformance (after they are filtered by popularity.

[Scaredgirl]

Well, mazbie if the deck would be horrible, and it got the most replies because people complained about the false statistics it wouldn't be the best Idea to archive it. I think that decks would need to be filtered on preformance (after they are filtered by popularity.

Yes, everyone knows that. But what I'm trying to say is that it would be painful to manage without some kind of star rating plugin. Also there is a clear downside if we tell everyone what the "best" deck is. Then everyone just plays that same deck which is boring.

Ok, the system is ready. All the topics are there and I dismantled the old "Anti-False God Decks" forum section.

Everything is a bit chaotic at the moment but it should be better after a few weeks once we get most of the decks in the Deck Archive.

[jmdt]

Anyway, about the leveling system, we should probably apply different stipulations for leveling based on the category. I highly doubt any pvp 1 deck will get 50 replies, let alone 500. Maybe for PvP 2 it could be you level up starting at 20 posts, then 30, 40, 50, and 60. For the others I won't speculate on ideal post amounts, but it definitely shouldn't be every 100 (though that might be appropriate for FG decks).

Yes, I thought about that.. it's clear that a mono-deck will never reach level 5, but then again does it matter? If it happens it happens. If not, it's not a big deal.

Well no, it's not a big deal, but one probably won't ever reach level 2 either, which IS kinda a big deal.

I mean, level 5 would supposedly be the best decks, right? Then there would be no "best" (optimized) decks for T50/PvP2/PvP1/Etc, which is hardly a good thing.

Newbs would automatically go to level 5, and see nothing, go to level 4, see nothing, and go to level 3, see nothing, so check level 2, where they *might* (low chance) be 1-2 decks, and think "well those can't be that good either, since they're only on level two"... and immediately lose hope in the decks . Okay, I'm stretching it, but that's the point.

I agree with puppychow here, mono decks by nature will get fewer replies than fg decks.  We need some form of a sliding scale or modified scale for deck types with generally lower posts.  At least 1 deck should always be level 5.  However, by putting deck in the archive, they will naturally get more trafic/posts.  I put my ultimate speed EM deck in the AI3 area to be added and the views/posts have doubled in a day (its pretty new and in mono life so it didn't have much traffic in the first place).

Another thing worth mentioning, just because a deck has a lot of posts doesn't mean its the best deck or even a good deck.  Some of the better decks out are likely newer decks that will naturaly have fewer posts and some decks with more posts may be outdated decks that have become obsolete with new strategies.  We should be somewhat selective in the decks that get added to the archive and make sure it doesn't get overridden with 'subpar decks'.  I know in my ttw thread, I'm somewhat selective of the decks that I allow to be added to keep it from getting overcrowded with slow/useless decks.  There are many more decks I test that I don't like that never make the thread.

As a side note, to save space and make it easier to view the page, using spoiler tags on the deck image may be a good idea.

[Scaredgirl]

Anyway, about the leveling system, we should probably apply different stipulations for leveling based on the category. I highly doubt any pvp 1 deck will get 50 replies, let alone 500. Maybe for PvP 2 it could be you level up starting at 20 posts, then 30, 40, 50, and 60. For the others I won't speculate on ideal post amounts, but it definitely shouldn't be every 100 (though that might be appropriate for FG decks).

Yes, I thought about that.. it's clear that a mono-deck will never reach level 5, but then again does it matter? If it happens it happens. If not, it's not a big deal.

Well no, it's not a big deal, but one probably won't ever reach level 2 either, which IS kinda a big deal.

I mean, level 5 would supposedly be the best decks, right? Then there would be no "best" (optimized) decks for T50/PvP2/PvP1/Etc, which is hardly a good thing.

Newbs would automatically go to level 5, and see nothing, go to level 4, see nothing, and go to level 3, see nothing, so check level 2, where they *might* (low chance) be 1-2 decks, and think "well those can't be that good either, since they're only on level two"... and immediately lose hope in the decks . Okay, I'm stretching it, but that's the point.

I agree with puppychow here, mono decks by nature will get fewer replies than fg decks.  We need some form of a sliding scale or modified scale for deck types with generally lower posts.  At least 1 deck should always be level 5.  However, by putting deck in the archive, they will naturally get more trafic/posts.  I put my ultimate speed EM deck in the AI3 area to be added and the views/posts have doubled in a day (its pretty new and in mono life so it didn't have much traffic in the first place).

Another thing worth mentioning, just because a deck has a lot of posts doesn't mean its the best deck or even a good deck.  Some of the better decks out are likely newer decks that will naturaly have fewer posts and some decks with more posts may be outdated decks that have become obsolete with new strategies.  We should be somewhat selective in the decks that get added to the archive and make sure it doesn't get overridden with 'subpar decks'.  I know in my ttw thread, I'm somewhat selective of the decks that I allow to be added to keep it from getting overcrowded with slow/useless decks.  There are many more decks I test that I don't like that never make the thread.

As a side note, to save space and make it easier to view the page, using spoiler tags on the deck image may be a good idea.

It's not meant to be for best decks, it's meant for most popular ones. This way it promotes discussion which is what this forum is all about. Instead of people dumping their deck ideas here and moving on to new things, they are "forced" to participate in the discussion if they want to make it to the Deck Archive.

We can do the "best deck" thing later using a star rating system or a poll on each topic.

Also I discarded the whole leveling thing. Now all decks are listed in either "upped" or "unupped" topics based on amount of replies. Go see the forum section to see what I mean.

[PuppyChow]

Just want to mention that as-is, it is or will be a huge workload for the deck helpers.

Every time someone posts a deck, we'll need to check the number of replies in each of the other decks to determine if it qualifies, and then place it there.

Furthermore, we'd need to periodically check the decks that are IN the archive and re-order them as necessary to make sure that the one with the most replies truly is at the top.

Solution? Along with the deck link, make people that submit a deck also post the current number of replies, and edit the code to
Deck Name (Replies: #)   by Poster
 (http://***************)

Also ask a person before submitting to check and make sure that their deck has more replies than one of the decks in the archive if the archive is currently full (20 decks).

To reevaluate a deck, we could require the author to post an update in the topic for the number of replies (like Update: Totally Awesome Deck now has 435937459 replies).

That way, it requires some effort on the deckmaker's part to move his deck higher up on the list, and us deck helpers only need to update the "standings" when the deck maker decides to make that effort.

Also, having the number of replies listed for each deck in the topic would make it much easier to change the standings.
On an unrelated note, I also think that some of the better and more common decks may not make it into the archive because the original topics are dead. For instance, speed poison definitely deserves a spot, as does a graboid control, but the original topics for them are dead and probably won't be submitted.

I mean, the decks are still popular, just nobody comments on them since they're lost in the pages and there really isn't much more to comment on. And since the decks are good, they do need a spot. Sure, the deck archive is all about a deck's popularity, but isn't it meant to help players out too? Popular =\= good. Somehow including these tried and tested decks would help players out, which is, I hope, the main intent of the archive.

My idea would be to have a new section (I'm not sure what to call it, maybe the Reliquary like the card ideas) that only deck helpers and mods could edit. There, if a deck helper (we ARE supposed to be good deck builders, right?) thinks a certain type/archetype of deck is good enough, we could post a picture the "base build" (or what we think is the base build) plus a small paragraph explaining its use, variations on it, and whether or not it works unupped. No author, no link to a topic.

It wouldn't add TOO much to the workload, because there may only be 5-6 archetypes in need of a mention. Fire stall, speed rainbows (though Terro's will probably be in the archive as well at some point), mono aether, graboid control rushes, speed poison, and flying glories stall are all that come to mind right now.

[jmdt]

My idea would be to have a new section (I'm not sure what to call it, maybe the Reliquary like the card ideas) that only deck helpers and mods could edit. There, if a deck helper (we ARE supposed to be good deck builders, right?) thinks a certain type/archetype of deck is good enough, we could post a picture the "base build" (or what we think is the base build) plus a small paragraph explaining its use, variations on it, and whether or not it works unupped. No author, no link to a topic.

Isn't that the point of a deck archive in the first place, to highlight tried an true decks that work?  If every deck that is posted is linked, it will be less effective as it will be cluttered with 'junk' decks and the gems will be lost.

Like you also pointed out several popular older decks either aren't posted or are linked in an obscure place.  I think it would be the best use of the deck archive to limit it to deck helper approved decks.  Either that, or make a 3rd section for 'reccommended decks' or some place to put the good ones.

[PuppyChow]

Either that, or make a 3rd section for 'reccommended decks' or some place to put the good ones.

This is what I just suggested. I like the whole number of replies and people need to submit decks to get them in (shows devotion to their decks >_>), but some great deck types wouldn't ever be in it. Hence, the "Reliquary" idea.
                                                                                                                                                

[Scaredgirl]

Just want to mention that as-is, it is or will be a huge workload for the deck helpers.

This is incorrect. It's actually very easy. Did you read that tutorial I posted in the "secret" section?

You don't need to check every new topic individually. All you need to do it list topics by replies and compare that list to Deck Archive. This can be done for example once per week. Easy.

An example of more difficult job would be Card Curators who do have to check each individual topic, finding flaws, suggesting improvements, and finally moving the idea and editing the poll.

As for deck helpers selecting "good" decks.. Just like with card ideas, I'd like the system to be automatic without one or two persons deciding which deck is good and which isn't.

To get old proven decks in the Deck Archive, we can simply revitalize some of them and get a new discussion going, maybe also do some improvements now that we have new cards.

We can always make changes as we go along, but for now I'd like to keep this as simple as possible so lets go with what we have now and change things later if needed.