Poll

Who played the best mafia?

Mobian
0 (0%)
MasterWalks
2 (14.3%)
shockcannon
1 (7.1%)
kaempfer13
1 (7.1%)
Linkcat
1 (7.1%)
andretimpa
3 (21.4%)
RootRanger
6 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: April 17, 2022, 07:50:06 pm

*Author

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307455#msg1307455
« Reply #384 on: April 09, 2022, 05:59:35 pm »
Linkcat (2) - MasterWalks, kaempfer13
kaempfer13 (1) - shockcannon
MasterWalks (3) - Linkcat, andretimpa, RootRanger

This is so stupid. I still think Linkcat is one of the most likely scum, but MW is intent on lynching me which will probably lose the game given the tight margins we're under. And MW is a good scum candidate too so it's not an awful lynch.
Actually, I found this post much more offensive, though its easily handwaved through a logical failure. As town eliminating a town that will missvote is at best equal to hitting scum. Meanwhile if both MW and Linkcat are scum the order doesnt really matter as MWs vote wasnt gonna help town either way. In that case the vote should go where you are confident. Things are different when you are a leader or plan on becoming a cultist ofc (though the latter is barely affected by a single missvoting town).
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307456#msg1307456
« Reply #385 on: April 09, 2022, 06:02:02 pm »
Root being scum also opens up the possibility that shock is an even bigger troll than we thought, though that makes for 2 missed cultists, which is even less likely.
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Offline andretimpa

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307457#msg1307457
« Reply #386 on: April 09, 2022, 06:15:24 pm »
Root being scum also opens up the possibility that shock is an even bigger troll than we thought, though that makes for 2 missed cultists, which is even less likely.

Not if Root was the one to get shock
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Offline shockcannon

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307458#msg1307458
« Reply #387 on: April 09, 2022, 07:06:08 pm »
That's a big brain move. Root as leader recruiting me, then claiming that he investigated me and saw cultist. Game winning play right there.
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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307459#msg1307459
« Reply #388 on: April 09, 2022, 07:15:51 pm »
My main thing against it is that I originally read Link`s PM post
That's not really that significant of a part of my case against Linkcat. What's most important is the breadcrumb post where he suggested being the leader of the Big team. Why would he do that otherwise?

@Root But suppose Link is one of the leaders, who is your guess for the second one?
MW. I think the best explanation for why he was trying so hard to lynch me is that he's a leader. It makes sense because he can know for a fact that I'm not on his team, as he never recruited me. For anyone else, there's ambiguity about my role from their perspective. So, it makes more sense to try to actually figure out what's going on instead of slamming one person over and over again based on fragile reasoning.

I kind of ignored this post because I already considered Root as leader at that time, but this is a pretty weak argument. Broadcasting as many mixed signals as I have makes any leader claim much less believable. The correct way to play as leader is to drop one or two solid breadcrumbs per cultist without any extra noise. The way I played the first half of the game was terrible as any faction, there's no way to tell the difference other than which faction you think I'd be more likely to throw as. And that's it, that's his entire basis for this lynch. He's barely even talked about anyone else, he's just pushing what he thinks is the easiest lynch.
Dude you haven't been broadcasting mixed signals, you've been broadcasting that you're the leader of the Big team. I've talked about this the most because it's the most compelling evidence. The only other role I know with a higher level of confidence is that shock is a cultist, but I'm not lynching him because that wouldn't make any sense.

He voted against no leaders, a clear anti-town move because there's no downside to eliminating the option.
Ok, so you think that not only serprex is running a bastard mafia, and there's nothing disrespectful about creating a sham vote to state this, but also that the sham vote actually means something?

He also never claimed his N2 target, another anti-town move. Even if it's a duplicate it will increase the confidence in the check. I just can't see you as town right now, whether there are leaders or not.
That's something you consider suspicious? I hadn't claimed my target yet because it doesn't actually matter if I'm correct about there being no new cultists resulting from N1 targets. If you care that much, my target was that andre is civ.

Actually, I found this post much more offensive, though its easily handwaved through a logical failure. As town eliminating a town that will missvote is at best equal to hitting scum. Meanwhile if both MW and Linkcat are scum the order doesnt really matter as MWs vote wasnt gonna help town either way. In that case the vote should go where you are confident. Things are different when you are a leader or plan on becoming a cultist ofc (though the latter is barely affected by a single missvoting town).
My hypothesis is that MW targeted shock in N0 then w3 in N1, while Linkcat targeted w3 in N0 and missed his target in N1. A few nuances about this to consider:

1. MW had a cultist on his team (shockcannon) while Linkcat didn't. This made MW the higher priority threat, all else being equal.
2. We weren't going to actually learn anything from our N2 targets because there weren't any new cultists added in N1. Every target was going to turn up civ. So, the fact that I considered MW to probably be the second most likely leader was sufficient for a lynch.
3. MW was set on lynching me after Linkcat. If he got his way, that would win the game for his faction. There would be 6 players remaining, and he would have new cultists from N2 and N3, to give him a 4-2 vote majority. Like I said, tight margins. You can make the case that he wouldn't be successful in his attempt to lynch me, but why risk it?

That's a big brain move. Root as leader recruiting me, then claiming that he investigated me and saw cultist. Game winning play right there.
Not what happened but we still both have the same incentive to vote Linkcat. If my hypothesis is correct, Linkcat is the Big team leader and you're a Little team cultist.
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307460#msg1307460
« Reply #389 on: April 09, 2022, 08:01:06 pm »
24 hour extension(2) Linkcat, kaempfer13
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307461#msg1307461
« Reply #390 on: April 09, 2022, 08:53:28 pm »
N2 claims
kae: timpa not cultist
Link: Root not cultist
timpa: kae not cultist

Doing it from my POV

MW - > Andre (timpa leader)
MW - > Link (contradicted by vote)
MW - > Root (ditto, also requires Root leader or link fake claim)
MW - > CK (questionable)
MW - > Oa (ok sure)


Andre - > MW (contradicted by vote)
Andre - > Link (not contradicted by votes, but still stupid)
Andre - > Root (requires Root leader or link fake claim)
Andre - > CK (questionable)
Andre - > Oa (sure)

Link - > MW (contradicted hard)
Link - > Andre (timpa leader) maybe not even an option, Link is smart enough to see leader between timpa and me in that case and would act differently
Link - > Root (no way)
Link - > CK (questionable)
Link - > Oa (sure)
Link - > Missed (sure)

Root - > MW (contradicted by vote)
Root - > Andre (timpa leader)
Root - > Link (no)
Root - > CK (questionable)
Root - > Oa (sure)
CK - > MW (sure)

CK - > Andre (timpa leader)
CK - > Link (ballsy)
CK - > Root (requires Root leader or link fake claim)
CK - > Oa (sure)
Oa - > MW (sure)

Oa - > Andre (timpa leader)
Oa - > Link (ballsy)
Oa - > Root (requires Root leader or link fake claim)
Oa - > CK (questionable)

Geez, any sensible recruiting strategy from at least 1 leader pretty much requires a fizzle. But if they have half a brain they would have switched gears after getting the fizzle confirmed, though theyd have to do it subtly. Ofc a Linkderp would explain a fizzle with no followup, that does however mean that the other leader is the one with the insane recruitment strategy.
Semicredible scenarios are:
Link and Oa with Oa recruiting mw and then being very surprised to find him dead, while link just trolls his way through or completely fails his recruitment. Actually mw really didnt act like a cultist with him sticking to his genuine Link read, so not even that scenario works all that well. Leaving Link genuinely failing and oa doing the troll picks. Shock and him have actually worked well together before, so its not impossible, but picking w3 after it was clear he was equally inactive is also weird.
any scenario with root in it requires a very unexpected recruitment strategy, though I suppose neither andre nor I were particularly dangerous to him, so maybe w3 and then another inactive is credible (Link obv not an option for recruitment).
I suppose andre really wouldnt need to recruit either Root or me and yet be safe, but he just doesnt behave like a leader (and also he probably should have picked mw instead of surprise lynching him).
ck, as I said, would either miss the recruitment (it does sound as though he was unaware abilities could be used at all until way late) or even just at random pick someone active, simply due to barely being aware of the others playing the game.
Oa in isolation also doesnt make much sense. Mw seemed a sensible recruit, but he just didnt act like it. Meaning Oa made a completely useless squad or recruited a leader that had been investigated.

Link triggered me too many times to ignore, but a 2nd leader would be acting way outside expectations. Not to mention that the number of people acting like cultists right now seems too low.

There are no cult leaders (3) - Linkcat, andretimpa, kaempfer13
There are cult leaders (2) - RootRanger, shockcannon

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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307462#msg1307462
« Reply #391 on: April 09, 2022, 09:02:09 pm »
I suppose i didnt address Mobian/mw containing a leader. Both is obv not possible as the game is going. Mobian would explain why we cant seem to find a 3rd cultist, but he absolutely should have picked MW as cultist (came up town for me), as that was the basis for my whole case and it couldnt have been both as stated before.
MW doing insane stuff is absolutely plausible. To the point that I believe him swapping me and root was a genuine derp. Still, the whole affair around Root with him was a bit sus. Hm.
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Offline Linkcat

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307463#msg1307463
« Reply #392 on: April 09, 2022, 10:37:49 pm »
My main thing against it is that I originally read Link`s PM post
That's not really that significant of a part of my case against Linkcat. What's most important is the breadcrumb post where he suggested being the leader of the Big team. Why would he do that otherwise?

I kind of ignored this post because I already considered Root as leader at that time, but this is a pretty weak argument. Broadcasting as many mixed signals as I have makes any leader claim much less believable. The correct way to play as leader is to drop one or two solid breadcrumbs per cultist without any extra noise. The way I played the first half of the game was terrible as any faction, there's no way to tell the difference other than which faction you think I'd be more likely to throw as. And that's it, that's his entire basis for this lynch. He's barely even talked about anyone else, he's just pushing what he thinks is the easiest lynch.
Dude you haven't been broadcasting mixed signals, you've been broadcasting that you're the leader of the Big team. I've talked about this the most because it's the most compelling evidence. The only other role I know with a higher level of confidence is that shock is a cultist, but I'm not lynching him because that wouldn't make any sense.

So now you're saying your whole case against me is based on the fact that I used the word big in a post? Come on, man. Big and little are common words, I'll prove it to you. Here's some other instances of those words that aren't buried in long posts.

Spoiler for Hidden:
@shock, plz dissect Kae's big ass post. There's something in that post and idk what it is.

@Mobian, you should tunnel on the Cool64Kid. Make them talk a lot so we can get a read on em.

@Timpa, post something so I can tunnel you

@kae explain your RootRanger read plz. I'm getting big scum reads on him

I'll give a better breakdown when I'm off work in 4 hours or so, but the just of my scumread on him:
He's playing judge on people's post. He keeps claiming x person is making good posts, without actually making a helpful one himself. He's sitting back, getting just enough posts to not get heat for inactivity but isn't saying much. The post you quoted with his 2 questions is the only legitimate post he's made. The first question is dumb af. That's a burner question because the answer cannot be known and there's only 3 options for answers.
The second question has started good discussion on what town should do, but tbh I'm reading more as he wants to know what town will do. If he's leader, and we agreed that we will expose a cultist on discovery, he could totally doc himself one day by exposing his own cultist. He's my biggest natural scumread, where as Link is the biggest most possible scumread due to obvious reasons. At this stage, I'm willing to bet leaders are Link and Root. I have no reads for cultists but I don't think cultists matter yet.

You wouldn't be voting me right now if my attempt to convert you wasn't 6 minutes late, which I found out just now because I haven't been paying attention to deadlines at all. I would have let it go through, I guess serp just likes to watch me suffer. Anyway, I'm trying to win this game solely through shitposting, so please don't lynch me thanks.


Linkcat (2) - MasterWalks, andretimpa
kaempfer13 (2) - shockcannon, Linkcat

I already gave my accusation earlier, looks like shock was the only one big brained enough to see it.

That's probably the nicest you've been to me about a big post  :D

Convinced or not, I'd love to hear a better alternative leader.

That's a big brain move. Root as leader recruiting me, then claiming that he investigated me and saw cultist. Game winning play right there.

I don't negotiate with noobs.

Kiddo, I won the last game, even after being abandoned by my teammate. I won the last war too. Run your little word game again and I'll win that.
Do you see noob in my name anymore? Nah cuh, I've grown.

What's the point of having power if you can't use it for good? It's the little things that truly matter in life.

im a little confused by all this cult terminology. Is there 3 teams, town cult1 cult2?

Anyways, as a truly civilized person, I do not condone the personal cracking of eggs at all! Nay, for I believe that all eggs must be purchased in carton form, for easy pouring onto the frying pan.
Plz tell me this is an April Fool's joke. This is so so wrong. This is actually offensive.
You can't make eggs with yolk, wtf is the point then. Are you 5years old and only eat scrambled eggs?
You can't separate your whites from yolks for baking. You have to buy separate cartons for that. Consumerism at its finest.
You don't get egg shells for compost. I guess if your buying carton eggs, you don't care for freshness anyways.
You have little to no variety. Supposed to be farm fresh for fried eggs and industrial eggs for baking. All you get is industrial.
Hard boiled eggs? Poached eggs? Over easy? Hollandaise sauce? You miss out on so much goodness, might as well just go vegan...

Now I'm just never going to read this out of spite.


Is this even legal?
So let me get this straight, you actually had received a pm on the day a game started where the role may require (in order to not throw) to open your inbox within the first (rl) day and never read it?

Its been to long that ive used my inbox without immediately reading everything, is it even possible to open the inbox and have pms marked as unread after?

1. Idk, probably not.

2. Of course I sent in a target for each possible role, I can still do that without checking my inbox.

3. No, but after I asked Naii to send me a pm I freaked out a little when I saw his name above the thread. Lucky for me he rescinded his signup.

Then that's a really shit claim because you're just copying the only reported target.
Yea obv.
On mobile so I can't breakdown your book of a post, but you quite literally swapped your name for my name when talking about shit posting the picks. I broke it down the same way.
First of all, as a leader, I would target kae or Andre N0. Kae knows how I scum play so he would be able to tell. Id chose Andre because you have to much passive scum to you you're too risky at being lynched.
Putting me in low when I fricken win last game and got voted best player is just rude. Lemme bask in my glory. Also, give me an icon for that, i deserve it.
To shitpost your way through the entire game then get pretty darn defensive when you're on the rope, that's a major scum thing to do. I know as a town or cultist you would absolutely continue with the shitposting right until death. I would expect this behavior from shock or w3 but not you. Also you bending the rules pretty damn hard by editing someone else's post and screenshotting your inbox notification even furthers your chance of being leader. You being modkilled D1 as a leader would give the game to Root (most likely). Serp might be bastard mod this game, but I think he'd still want to preserve a fair-ish game and that means not mod killing a leader.
That's enough of my defense, on to your other reads.
I agree Mobian would probably recruit me if he was leader. He wouldn't recruit shock unless Mobian didn't understand rules. And I think he understands them enough to not do that. Mobian died a townie and I think we all agree on that.
I would not recruit shock with this playgroup. Too often he is policy lynched. Especially as a N0 recruit when Mobian is in game and would obsess with policy lynching shock. Kae as a leader also wouldn't recruit shock. Too much of a chance shock tries to get kae killed later, and he definitely wouldn't be quiet if he knew kae recruited him. That leaves either A) you recruited him or B) a noob like CoolKid did, since they wouldn't know what a shockcannon is. I lean on you doing it for shitpost reasons.
A kae leader would probably recruit Root or Andre. Kae has actually been kinda open to lynching Root so that lowers the possibility there. I am interested in hearing if Andre was investigated and what the result was, but I'm not seeing a leader Kae. If you truly believe kae is a leader with me, why not jump on him now? He gets a little funny and prone to mistakes when he has a decent amount of pressure on him.

In fact, since MW used it four times and I used it twice, I'll just say that MW is the big end cult leader. Bam, game solved. This is silly.
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Offline Linkcat

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307464#msg1307464
« Reply #393 on: April 09, 2022, 10:47:13 pm »
He voted against no leaders, a clear anti-town move because there's no downside to eliminating the option.
Ok, so you think that not only serprex is running a bastard mafia, and there's nothing disrespectful about creating a sham vote to state this, but also that the sham vote actually means something?

1. It's serprex, I wouldn't put it past him. I even told him to run one when he asked for setup ideas.
2. No, how is that disrespectful? The game was posted on April Fool's, it's a real possibility and would save us a lot of headache.
3. I at least trust him to keep his word.
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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307465#msg1307465
« Reply #394 on: April 09, 2022, 10:51:31 pm »
Linkcat (2) - RootRanger, kaempfer13
RootRanger (1) - Linkcat
andretimpa (1) - shockcannon

Is this the most recent tally?

@Link After thinking through the different scenarios I kept returning to "Why did Link defend Oa so much?" It seems to me no one was buying kae's argument anyways
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Offline Linkcat

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Re: Elements Mafia 78 by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68264.msg1307466#msg1307466
« Reply #395 on: April 09, 2022, 10:54:02 pm »
He also never claimed his N2 target, another anti-town move. Even if it's a duplicate it will increase the confidence in the check. I just can't see you as town right now, whether there are leaders or not.
That's something you consider suspicious? I hadn't claimed my target yet because it doesn't actually matter if I'm correct about there being no new cultists resulting from N1 targets. If you care that much, my target was that andre is civ.

Of course, withholding hard information at endgame is always anti town, no matter how small. That's a terrible reason too, even if you think it's irrelevant, the rest of the players were using these checks to help solve. The only reason anyone would want to withhold it would be to make it a dupe and leave holes for other players to doubt.
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anything
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