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Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098450#msg1098450
« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2013, 04:26:27 pm »
Questions:

Is the fact that there are 3 cousins significant? Does the solution require 3 rooms with 3 cousins or is it just the same process repeated 3 times?
Is the same knife used 3 times on the 3 cousins?
Is the story telling significant? Does it matter that the guesthouse is well kept or not?

Also, a wild theory appears: It is the middle of summer. It is warm. The cousins decide to sleep with their windows open. The culprit assisted by 2 volunteers approach the house. The murderer climbs through the window and kills the 1st cousin. He then exits. Volunteer 1 climbs into the room, locks the window and hides. The murderer kills the second cousin in the same way and the 2nd volunteer hides in this room. The murder kills the 3rd cousin, locks the window and hides in this room. In the morning, you try each door and run outside. You fail to lock the front door behind you. Each murder and volunteer leaves their respective bedroom before you look through the window. Since you do not check the doors again, you cannot guarantee they are still locked.

I feel as though you are ignoring me :'(

1. As there are three separate closed rooms, they can be considered three different mysteries and treated as such from a game perspective. However, because of the nature of the closed rooms, it has been most efficient for both sides to come up with a theory that works for all three and for me to counter the theory for all three.

It is possible to start by doing one room at a time, should you so wish.

2. As you didn't actually see a knife in any of the cousins' rooms, that would be a reasonable assumption.

3. The story is for your interpretation. I have mentioned that it is an accurate representation of your memories, but what you get out of the story is up to you.

Kakerlake has shown my red truths countering your theory already.

Offline eljoemo

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098457#msg1098457
« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2013, 05:23:43 pm »
Does the red truth "- When you checked and entered each guestroom, other than you and the respective cousin, no human existed within the room." apply to all of the bedroom, the bathroom and the closet?
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Offline Kakerlake

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098458#msg1098458
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2013, 05:30:14 pm »
Does the red truth "- When you checked and entered each guestroom, other than you and the respective cousin, no human existed within the room." apply to all of the bedroom, the bathroom and the closet?
Quote
-Each guestroom is divided into three sections: the bedroom, the bathroom, and a small closet.
All three sections are part of the guestroom. Moving between sections does not qualify as leaving or entering the guestroom.

Offline eljoemo

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098462#msg1098462
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2013, 06:02:34 pm »
This post is for EvaRia.

I would like to have some facts checked. If they are correct, you may choose to declare them as a red truth. If they are not correct, you may choose to declare the opposite as a red truth. If the fact is neither proven to be true nor false, I may use it in an accusation in my coming posts.

-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the entire household.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the cousin sleeping in that room.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking you.
-It is impossible to repair a broken window from the outside (e.g. replacing a pane of glass).
-You would be able to tell if a window had been broken and then repaired.
-If awoken, a cousin would attempt to alert the rest of the house (screaming etc.) if they thought they were in danger.
-Each cousin was killed by a single stab wound to the chest. At the time, the knife was being held and controlled by the culprit.
-Each cousin left his window open due to the hot weather.
-At 9:00am, when you awoke, the cousins were dead and the murderer was gone.
-Windows are locked with a sliding bolt, just like the doors.
-Windows open outwards.


As a side point, does it matter if we figure out the culprit and the motive or do we just have to find out how they did it?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 09:28:35 pm by eljoemo »
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Offline Gandora

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098464#msg1098464
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2013, 06:16:35 pm »
This post is for EvaRia.

I would like to have some facts checked. If they are correct, you may choose to declare them as a red truth. If they are not correct, you may choose to declare the opposite as a red truth. If the fact is neither proven to be true nor false, I may use it in an accusation in my coming posts.

-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the entire household.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the cousin sleeping in that room.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking you.
-It is impossible to repair a broken window from the outside (e.g. replacing a pane of glass).
--> I think this is true because of this:
Quote
- No method exists through which it is possible to perfectly seal one of the guestroom windows from outside the guestroom.

-If awoken, a cousin would attempt to alert the rest of the house (screaming etc.) if they thought they were in danger.
-Each cousin was killed by a single stab wound to the chest. At the time, the knife was being held and controlled by the culprit.

As a side point, does it matter if we figure out the culprit and the motive or do we just have to find out how they did it?
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Offline eljoemo

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098466#msg1098466
« Reply #125 on: September 21, 2013, 06:21:25 pm »
This post is for EvaRia.

I would like to have some facts checked. If they are correct, you may choose to declare them as a red truth. If they are not correct, you may choose to declare the opposite as a red truth. If the fact is neither proven to be true nor false, I may use it in an accusation in my coming posts.

-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the entire household.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the cousin sleeping in that room.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking you.
-It is impossible to repair a broken window from the outside (e.g. replacing a pane of glass).
--> I think this is true because of this:
Quote
- No method exists through which it is possible to perfectly seal one of the guestroom windows from outside the guestroom.

-If awoken, a cousin would attempt to alert the rest of the house (screaming etc.) if they thought they were in danger.
-Each cousin was killed by a single stab wound to the chest. At the time, the knife was being held and controlled by the culprit.

As a side point, does it matter if we figure out the culprit and the motive or do we just have to find out how they did it?

I agree, I have also added an additional point for consideration.
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Offline Kakerlake

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098477#msg1098477
« Reply #126 on: September 21, 2013, 07:41:26 pm »
Let's start thinking portals.

The culprit is a Vampire (qualifies as human) and can turn into a Bat (not a human) at will.
Bob, Bert and Fred have their windows open, as it is a warm night.
The culprit first visited Bob, killed him with a knife, closed the window and started sucking blood. Too late he realized that he's allergic to this blood type and passes out.
He got woken by the knocking at the door and instinctively turned into a bat. When the detective broke the window, the bat escaped and wanted to find the next victim.
The bat then found Bert, who was just sneaking out of his window. So he turned again into a Human, used the knife he had hidden behind his ear to stab Bert, dragged him back inside the room, closed the window and wanted to start eating, when he heard the detective running close. Shocked by the sudden interuption, he turned again into a bat just in time to not get caught by the spying eyes. Yet again he escaped through the now broken window and made his way to find a new victim.
It must've been his lucky day, since there was one hiding just around the corner, spying into the wrong direction. Again the same as before, stabbing, dragging, closing, starting to suck and be scared to undeath by some unnatural screaming of a detective. That was too much for him, so he escaped never to be seen again.

Why didn't the cousins say anything when the detective was screaming around? - They thought Bob was trolling and wanted to be in with the fun and scare the detective.


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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098483#msg1098483
« Reply #127 on: September 21, 2013, 08:37:28 pm »
This is mostly for me, to keep track of notes and stuff.

Spoiler for Excluding entrances:
Quote

- Other than through a door or window, there exists no method through which it is possible for a human to enter any of the three guestrooms.
*There is also no such method to leave the rooms.

- It is forbidden for hidden passages to exist.

- There's no way you wouldn't notice someone trying to sneak past you in the common room.
<-- mainly because of this

- The only route between any of the three guestrooms within the guesthouse is through the common room. No other route exists within the guesthouse.

--> For each murder, the murderer left and entered through the window. Unless he somehow put me in a deep sleep, maybe with gas or something?
But I exclude the doors also because the red truths say that it's impossible to leave through a door without unlocking it. It also says that there is no method to lock it from the outside. Though it only states that it's impossible to 'perfectly seal' it, but not to 'seal it unperfectly'. If necessary, one can try to abuse this little difference but I still think the doors don't matter because of the 'sneaking' truth.

Spoiler for About the murderer:
- Other than you, the three cousins, and the owner of the mansion, no person exists in the area who the three cousins would recognize.

- From the moment you parted ways, the owner of the mansion never actually left the mansion.

- The owner of the mansion is not a culprit.

- Neither you, nor one of the cousins is the owner of the mansion! He is, without a doubt, a different person!

- From the moment you entered the guesthouse until the moment you woke up in the morning the next day, not once did you leave the guesthouse.

- There's no way any of the cousins would simply open a window for a stranger.

- No more than one culprit exists in this game.

- In this game, a culprit cannot die.

- It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit!!

- A culprit in this game is defined as "One who has murdered one of the game's victims."


-->We can exclude all mentioned people to be the culprit. If it was one of the cousins he must still be alive. We are the detective and are excluded as well, so is the owner of the mansion. We must therefore include a 6th person to be the murderer.
--> Introducing a 6th person means that the cousins would not recognize him/her and since the murderer entered through the window, the cousins never locked the windows. The murderer must have locked them.

Spoiler for What we know about the murder:
- The moment when each victim died, both the murderer and the culprit were in the same room.

- No method exists through which it is possible to kill someone inside one of the guestrooms from outside the room.

- Each victim was stabbed by a knife. No other method of murder was used.

- Each victim died an instant death. There was no time for them to react or perform any action after attacked.

- In this game, only another culprit can assist or otherwise cooperate with a culprit in murder.

- No victim died as a result of suicide. I will extend this to accidents, heart attacks, or any other way of dying without the will of a separate killer.

- Each of the three bodies you discovered was unmistakably dead.
-The body which you discovered in Bill's room belongs to Bill.
-The body which you discovered in Fred's room belongs to Fred.
-The body which you discovered in Bob's room belongs to Bob.


--> We can exclude any help. We know already that there was only one culprit in this game.

Spoiler for After waking up:
- When you woke up, each of the guestroom windows was locked from the inside.

- When you woke up, each of the three guestroom doors were locked from the inside using a sliding bolt.

- When you checked and entered each guestroom, other than you and the respective cousin, no human existed within the room.

- When you checked and entered each guestroom, the respective door to the common room was locked from the inside.

- Both the moment when you woke up and when you came across each window, the windows were perfectly sealed from the inside.

--> we can exclude that the murderer exchanged the seals of the windows.
--> The murderer left the room after his/her work, otherwise it contradicts the red truth that there was no one in the room the moment we checked.

Spoiler for About doors and seals:

- No key exists that can lock or unlock a door to any of the three guestrooms.

- Perfectly sealing an entranceway from the inside requires that the one doing so be inside the room at the exact time it is sealed.

- It is impossible to enter or exit a room through a locked door without first unlocking it!

- As no keys to the guestroom doors exist, no method exists through which it is possible to perfectly seal a guestroom door from outside the guestroom.

- A window locked from the inside represents a "perfect seal".
- A locked guestroom door is a "perfect seal". No method exists to break or remove a perfect seal on a guestroom door from outside the guestroom.

- The definition of a "perfect seal" states that it is impossible to enter through a sealed entrance without first breaking or removing the seal.
- No method exists through which it is possible to perfectly seal one of the guestroom windows from outside the guestroom.
- Without breaking the seal, no method exists through which it is possible to remove a perfect seal on a guestroom window from outside the guestroom.

- ANY other method is considered perfectly sealing from the outside and is not possible in this game.

- For ANY method where the human unsealing one of the guestroom doors is outside the room at the exact time it is unsealed, it is considered "breaking or removing a perfect seal on a guestroom door from outside the room" and is not possible.

I think it's important to notice that the doors weren't used for this crime (correct me, if I'm wrong) because even if the murderer accomplished his work after you woke up it's impossible for him according to the rules to lock the doors from the outside .
Besides that, considering the aspect of time, I don't think it's possible to kill 3 people and seal and escape from each room before we knock on the door.
--> As far as I can tell, it seems that the murderer locked the window and then left through it. This doesn't contraddict the red truths we have so far.

So, to me it currently looks like this:
1. Enter guestroom through window.
2. Kill the cousin.
3. Seal window.
4. Leave through window. <-- Main question: how?
As stated in a previous post, breaking the glass and repair it won't work, as that would mean perfectly seal it from the outside.
I'm tired now, if anyone has any remarks to add or I made a mistake in thoughts, please let me know by a PM :) I will edit this post from time to time if I get new ideas.



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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098503#msg1098503
« Reply #128 on: September 21, 2013, 09:25:30 pm »
All three cousins left their windows open during the night. The culprit sneaked into Bill's room via the window, then shut it. After killing Bill, the culprit then set up a mechanism that would lock the door from the inside when it was shut. He then snuck outside and did the same with the other two rooms.
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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098507#msg1098507
« Reply #129 on: September 21, 2013, 09:28:39 pm »
All three cousins left their windows open during the night. The culprit sneaked into Bill's room via the window, then shut it. After killing Bill, the culprit then set up a mechanism that would lock the door from the inside when it was shut. He then snuck outside and did the same with the other two rooms.

- Perfectly sealing an entranceway from the inside requires that the one doing so be inside the room at the exact time it is sealed.
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Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098547#msg1098547
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2013, 02:39:05 am »
This post is for EvaRia.

I would like to have some facts checked. If they are correct, you may choose to declare them as a red truth. If they are not correct, you may choose to declare the opposite as a red truth. If the fact is neither proven to be true nor false, I may use it in an accusation in my coming posts.

-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the entire household.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking the cousin sleeping in that room.
-It is impossible for the culprit to break a window without waking you.
-It is impossible to repair a broken window from the outside (e.g. replacing a pane of glass).
-You would be able to tell if a window had been broken and then repaired.
-If awoken, a cousin would attempt to alert the rest of the house (screaming etc.) if they thought they were in danger.
-Each cousin was killed by a single stab wound to the chest. At the time, the knife was being held and controlled by the culprit.
-Each cousin left his window open due to the hot weather.
-At 9:00am, when you awoke, the cousins were dead and the murderer was gone.
-Windows are locked with a sliding bolt, just like the doors.
-Windows open outwards.


As a side point, does it matter if we figure out the culprit and the motive or do we just have to find out how they did it?

I acknowledge those statements in red. The rest I will refuse. I won't say why.


Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Re: The Witch's Game - By EvaRia https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=51086.msg1098548#msg1098548
« Reply #131 on: September 22, 2013, 02:41:53 am »
Let's start thinking portals.

The culprit is a Vampire (qualifies as human) and can turn into a Bat (not a human) at will.
Bob, Bert and Fred have their windows open, as it is a warm night.
The culprit first visited Bob, killed him with a knife, closed the window and started sucking blood. Too late he realized that he's allergic to this blood type and passes out.
He got woken by the knocking at the door and instinctively turned into a bat. When the detective broke the window, the bat escaped and wanted to find the next victim.
The bat then found Bert, who was just sneaking out of his window. So he turned again into a Human, used the knife he had hidden behind his ear to stab Bert, dragged him back inside the room, closed the window and wanted to start eating, when he heard the detective running close. Shocked by the sudden interuption, he turned again into a bat just in time to not get caught by the spying eyes. Yet again he escaped through the now broken window and made his way to find a new victim.
It must've been his lucky day, since there was one hiding just around the corner, spying into the wrong direction. Again the same as before, stabbing, dragging, closing, starting to suck and be scared to undeath by some unnatural screaming of a detective. That was too much for him, so he escaped never to be seen again.

Why didn't the cousins say anything when the detective was screaming around? - They thought Bob was trolling and wanted to be in with the fun and scare the detective.


Blue truth ineffective!

This theory clearly uses elements of magic to solve the mystery.

It's nice to have you on my side :P.

 

blarg: