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Offline Submachine

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1146196#msg1146196
« Reply #300 on: July 18, 2014, 09:43:07 am »
A brave soul should try cathegorizing the truths. ^^

So Howard and Bill couldn't kill Charlie, neither Alicia or the detective. This means only Lucy or an unmentioned character could have killed him.
For this, the culprit must have entered the closed room of Charlie and she also left somehow while having everything closed behind him/her. Magic is no option. However, the masterkey was already in play, plus the room where Charlie was had an extra key we don't know anything about.
Where could Lucy come into the locked room? Howard did not unlock the door, Lucy never used the masterkey and there were no doors or windows removed, broken or taken apart. Charlie wouldn't unlock the door for Lucy, but he would open the door for Howard or maybe an unknown character too. There were no secret passages either and the murderer stepped into the room before he/she killed Charlie.
What is a room made of? 4 Walls, doors, windows, ceiling and floor. The ceiling and floor counts as walls now. I assume there are no ways to pass through a wall, unless I'm mistaken, so only the door(s) and windows are left as option.

Now everytime I say Charlie's room, I refer to the room where Charlie was, because it's easier. :P

An unknown person unlocked the door/window to Charlie's room using the masterkey - unless Charlie was dumb enough to throw his room keys out the window and Lucy/unknown person just unlocked his door/window with that - OR Charlie unlocked the door for an unknown person and then that person/Lucy entered the room and killed Charlie.

On the leave, either the unknown person locked the door with the masterkey or Lucy locked the door with the other roomkey.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 09:54:37 pm by Submachine »
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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1146315#msg1146315
« Reply #301 on: July 18, 2014, 09:51:58 pm »
No person not named in the story ever used the master key.

Charlie would not throw his room key out the window.

Charlie would not unlock the door for anyone he didn't know.
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Offline Submachine

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1147454#msg1147454
« Reply #302 on: July 25, 2014, 07:29:03 am »
I found this a bit false-information-giving-but-whatever red truth, if you get what I mean. ^^
Quote
During the time of Lucy's murder, Howard was together with Charlie and Bill the whole time.
 - This refers to the time you believe Lucy was murdered in the story.


Let it roll!

Bill returned to the hotel BEFORE he actually went to bring the police. Charlie already locked himself inside a hotel room and he opened the door for Bill. Then Lucy/Bill/a stranger stepped into the room and killed Charlie. After this, Lucy/Bill closed the door with the masterkey.
This one was giving itself, because who would ever GO for the police when he can simply CALL them? ^^

If not, then:
Lucy/Bill/a stranger opened Charlie's room with the key that belong to that room. Then Lucy/Bill/a stranger (not necessarily the same person who unlocked the door) stepped in the room and killed Charlie. On the way out, the killer locked the door with the masterkey/Charlie's roomkey from the inside by using a string.

edit: I fixed a stupid mistake I made. I was tired when I wrote this -_-
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 10:44:41 am by Submachine »
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Offline Fippe94Topic starter

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1147787#msg1147787
« Reply #303 on: July 27, 2014, 03:01:23 pm »
I found this a bit false-information-giving-but-whatever red truth, if you get what I mean. ^^
Quote
During the time of Lucy's murder, Howard was together with Charlie and Bill the whole time.
 - This refers to the time you believe Lucy was murdered in the story.
The second line makes it *not* false infromation, and was added for that very purpose. I see no reason to change it further.
Quote
Bill returned to the hotel BEFORE he actually went to bring the police. Charlie already locked himself inside a hotel room and he opened the door for Bill. Then Lucy/Bill/a stranger stepped into the room and killed Charlie. After this, Lucy/Bill closed the door with the masterkey.
Bill did not return to the hotel without the policemen
And it's actually stated earlier in the story that it was impossible to call anyone from the hotel.

Quote
If not, then:
Lucy/Bill/a stranger opened Charlie's room with the key that belong to that room. Then Lucy/Bill/a stranger (not necessarily the same person who unlocked the door) stepped in the room and killed Charlie. On the way out, the killer locked the door with the masterkey/Charlie's roomkey from the inside by using a string.
It is impossible to lock a door from the inside while being outside the room
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Offline Submachine

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1147792#msg1147792
« Reply #304 on: July 27, 2014, 03:15:48 pm »
Lucy or a stranger opened Charlie's room with the key that belong to that room. Then Lucy or the stranger (not necessarily the same person who unlocked the door) stepped in the room and killed Charlie. On the way out, the killer or her helper locked the door with the masterkey or Charlie's roomkey (since i can't find it mentioned anywhere that any of the keys were left inside the room).

Maybe I just skipped a red truth. If yes, please remind me.

Alternatively:
The killer went in the same way as I mentioned above, but after killing Charlie she locked the door from the inside and hid in the room.


I have to say that this mystery is getting hard. I ran out of creative ideas. :(
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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1147802#msg1147802
« Reply #305 on: July 27, 2014, 03:54:00 pm »
Lucy or a stranger opened Charlie's room with the key that belong to that room. Then Lucy or the stranger (not necessarily the same person who unlocked the door) stepped in the room and killed Charlie. On the way out, the killer or her helper locked the door with the masterkey or Charlie's roomkey (since i can't find it mentioned anywhere that any of the keys were left inside the room).
I have no counter. Very good.
Charlie locked his room from the inside.
Lucy opened the door with the room key that Charlie had forgot to bring.
Lucy killed Charlie, left the room key inside the room, and then locked the room with the master key.


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Offline Submachine

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1147813#msg1147813
« Reply #306 on: July 27, 2014, 04:49:42 pm »
We're lucky then. :) That was my last anchor.

Then I guess only Alicia's mystery remains? But then again, it's also a secret who the 4th victim is.
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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1150133#msg1150133
« Reply #307 on: August 09, 2014, 09:57:15 am »

Lucy killed Alicia at night in a different room and her body has not yet been found. Lucy killed the 4th victim in Alicia's room in the morning before you woke up, locking the door behind her with the master key

or

Lucy killed Alicia at night in a different room and her body has not yet been found. Lucy killed the 4th victim in Alicia's room the day before you arrived, locking the door behind her with the master key


Offline Submachine

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1150693#msg1150693
« Reply #308 on: August 12, 2014, 04:33:42 am »
I sorted the truths out a bit, so they are easier to overview.

Night Phase

Alicia was killed at night.

Alicia never left her room.

When Alicia was killed, the murderer was in the same room as her.
-This includes the point when Alicia actually died.

There is only one door to Alicia's room.

The only way to move a key between two rooms is through a window, a door or a secret passage.

Alicia's room key never entered the room through the window.

Aside from the master key, only one key to Alicia's room exist.

The master key stayed in Howard's room the whole night.
The master key was still in Howard's room when Alicia was killed

The master key did not unlock Alicia's room during the night.

There are no secret passages leading to or from Alicia's room.

The door and the window are the only ways a human can enter or exit Alicia's room.

It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the story.

Lucy never entered the building through a window.

Lucy was never on the roof.

The room was on second floor, it was too high to be able to jump down from the window.
There are no ladders in this game.
When Howard unlocked Alicia's room in the morning, there was no rope anywhere inside the room.
There was nothing within reach of the window that could be used to tie a rope to.
There was no tree nearby that you could climb on.
It is not possible to climb directly on the wall of the building.
Lucy did not have a grappling hook.

If you jump from the second floor of a building or higher, you will die no matter what you land on.

No one helped Alicia's murderer to escape the room.

Alicia was not killed by an animal (Humans are not considered animals in this context).

The dead body you found in Alicia'r room was Alicia.

Howard did not lock Alicia's room.


Morning

Right before you woke up, Howard unlocked the locked door to Alicia's room. At this point, Alicia's room key was inside Alicia's room.

When Howard unlocked the door to Alicia's room, her room key was inside the room.

Alicia's killer left Alicia's room before you woke up.

No one entered or exited Alicia's room during the short time between Howard unlocking the door and you waking up.

When you woke up, there was no human inside Alicia's room except Alicia, who was dead.

When you entered Alicia's room, the window was locked.
- This applies to all windows in Alicia's room.


Accusations flying everywhere

Lucy faked her death when you found her.

Howard lied about Lucy being dead.


After Bill left - Howard and Charlie

When Bill left to get the police, he did not return until he brings the policemen.
Bill did not return to the hotel without the policemen.

No one entered the house after Bill left.

After Bill left the hotel, Charlie locked himself inside a hotel room.
Charlie locked his room from the inside.

Lucy forced Howard to commit suicide.

The master key did not leave Howard's possession until after his death.

When Charlie died, Howard was already dead.

Lucy opened the door with the room key that Charlie had forgot to bring.

Lucy killed Charlie, left the room key inside the room, and then locked the room with the master key.


The Final Escape

Bill left the house before the key got to the basement.

Lucy threw the key under the basement door.

Lucy did not use any secret passage before throwing the key under the basement door.

After locking the door to Howard's room from the inside, Lucy left Howard's room through a secret passage.

Charlie was dead when you exited the basement.

Howard's room had been locked from the inside when you unlocked the door.



Spoiler for General Truths:
There are four dead people in this game.

Each guest of the hotel had their own room. No person was sleeping in the same room as anyone else.
Each room is completely seperate. It is not the case that one room is inside another.

You need a key to lock the doors from the outside.

There is only one master key.
In this game, a 'skeleton key' would be counted as a 'master key'.

The windows can only be locked and unlocked from the inside.
The windows can only be locked when the window is already closed

No part of the walls, roof, or floors of the hotel was taken apart.
No door was broken, removed or taken apart.
No window was broken, removed or taken apart.

Aside from the basement door, a key cannot be moved through a door while it is locked.
In this context, "through the door" measn through the doorway, which includes things like under the door and through the keyhole.

No accident was involved in the murders.

The doors can only be locked while they are closed.

Lucy never used the master key to unlock a door.

No person not named in the story ever used the master key.

It is impossible to lock a door from the inside while being outside the room.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 12:24:53 pm by Submachine »
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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1150695#msg1150695
« Reply #309 on: August 12, 2014, 04:59:08 am »
The real mystery is, how did Lucy lock the door on the way out of Alicia's room? We know that she already left the room at night, but how? The masterkey was not used at all, there were no secret passages and Alicia's roomkey was left inside the room. The windows can only be closed from the inside, but the windows were closed after Lucy left, so it's another dead option.

Lucy easily entered Alicia's room, because it was open - even if Alicia opened it for Lucy. When they were both inside the room, Lucy stabbed Alicia, then left the room. Alicia was not dead at this point, so she was able to close the door from the inside before passing away.

Another loophole that we haven't noticed so far:

Lucy entered Alicia's door either by her roomkey or by walking through the already open door. After Lucy killed Alicia, she closed the door from the inside and jumped out the window, leaving the window open for the night. In the morning after Howard opened Alicia's door and we woke up, but only before we got there, either Lucy or Howard closed the open window.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 05:09:31 am by Submachine »
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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1150714#msg1150714
« Reply #310 on: August 12, 2014, 09:45:19 am »
Thanks submachine that is easier to look through

I didn't see this truth before

The master key did not leave Howard's possession until after his death.

Then how about this:

Lucy killed Alicia at night in a different room and early in the morning moved Alicia's body to her room with Howard's help. Howard then locked the door behind them with the master key.

That does leave a mysterious 4th body

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Re: The Witch's Game 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54422.msg1150717#msg1150717
« Reply #311 on: August 12, 2014, 10:33:13 am »
Lucy easily entered Alicia's room, because it was open - even if Alicia opened it for Lucy. When they were both inside the room, Lucy stabbed Alicia, then left the room. Alicia was not dead at this point, so she was able to close the door from the inside before passing away.
I have already said:
When Alicia was killed, the murderer was in the same room as her.
I will extend this to:
-This includes the point when Alicia actually died.
Quote
Lucy entered Alicia's door either by her roomkey or by walking through the already open door. After Lucy killed Alicia, she closed the door from the inside and jumped out the window, leaving the window open for the night. In the morning after Howard opened Alicia's door and we woke up, but only before we got there, either Lucy or Howard closed the open window.
The room was on second floor, it was too high to be able to jump down from the window.
Lucy killed Alicia at night in a different room and early in the morning moved Alicia's body to her room with Howard's help. Howard then locked the door behind them with the master key.
Howard did not lock Alicia's room.
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