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Offline CleanOnionTopic starter

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266475#msg1266475
« Reply #396 on: July 22, 2017, 01:15:08 am »


Round 29



Spoiler for Pipeworks at the end of Round 28:


With the rat infestation eliminated, the rate of Infections increase dropped dramatically. The amount of the population infected is still massive, but so long that number remains below the estimated point-of-no-return, when the disease will spread faster than any cure, things should be fine.

Today's event were marked by vibrations, more so than usual. Two drills, their echoes interfering with each other, gently rippled the concrete for miles around. One came to a standstill as it had run through as much material as it could. One stopped because it began to drill through air, and then water, and then stone.

A vast cavern of water - the Reservoir - has been breached. But will the Pipeworkers be able to work out what to do with it? Will they be able to create the tools they need to utilise it, and even then, will they know how to use them?

Danger still presents itself from every side, and time is running out.

Round 29 ends: Round 29 has ended.

Please PM any queries to myself and Naii_the_Baf.

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266507#msg1266507
« Reply #397 on: July 22, 2017, 07:58:03 pm »
at the current rates, both infections and oxygen willl be deadly in 2 rounds and cultists have limited ability in actually preventing the invaders from reaching the vent that they are closer to due to pollution, so stopping the invaders will presumably take 3(!) whole rounds from the only other faction that can get into polluted territory (us). Of course that also means that we dont have a single action to spare on anything, including building the pump (its just 2 actions away, but we cant spare them   :'( ).  Also the legion may come back eventually.
Unless medics find death by arbitrary time limits exciting, it would be very helpfull if they could get ready to deal with infections. At the moment the best way to deal with it would be medicine bomb (feel free to use it on a room adjacent to our territory if you must), if you can make one, but even using medicine normally on rooms would help a bit. Also you seem to have screwed with the foundation of the pipeworks (at this point im not even judging anymore, just it would be nice if you could try to close the hole you created somehow, I doubt a collapse will be helpfull).
Also would be really nice to know why the invaders are so selfdestructive (and only you know more). I mean you do it for the lulz, as you are just a player and your real life isnt in danger, but what drives the invaders that very well do die for real to the lack of oxygen?
I see you tried to ally us and perhaps cultists too. Cultists wont ally with you until you make a complete u-turn in your pollicies as far as I can tell and we have no actions to spare unfortunately (also we could use a few reasons to trust you better).
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 08:25:13 pm by kaempfer13 »
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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266513#msg1266513
« Reply #398 on: July 23, 2017, 12:43:24 am »
actually we can probably achieve coopwin this round; all we need is 2 gears and an oil can
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Offline Ryli

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266516#msg1266516
« Reply #399 on: July 23, 2017, 01:48:20 am »
actually we can probably achieve coopwin this round; all we need is 2 gears and an oil can

We have all 3 if you're missing them all, and can donate action 1.

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266520#msg1266520
« Reply #400 on: July 23, 2017, 02:16:15 am »
only listed the things we miss.
Thanks!
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Offline CleanOnionTopic starter

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266539#msg1266539
« Reply #401 on: July 24, 2017, 01:04:00 am »


End of Game



Spoiler for Pipeworks at the end of the game:


The Scientists were able to develop a solution to the energy crisis - they call it a "Geothermal Generator", though that name is often accompanied by shady looks and nervous shuffling. With this announcement, the people of the Pipeworks rejoiced - their troubles were finally over.

Infections were still on the rise, reaching critical levels; the Legion were trying to breach the Pipeworks and destroy it from within; their daughter faction, the Invaders, continued to pump their foul-smelling substance through the ventilation system; and to this day nobody knows where the allegiance of the Medics actually lay.

But those problems could be dealt with by someone else. The leaders of the remaining factions had finished their duty - which was to provide a means to end the energy crisis and, satisfied with their job, they stepped down from their positions. New leaders were elected, in which time the Legion grew closer and the foul-smelling substance grew thicker.

How will the Pipeworkers solve the issues that the faction ex-leaders left them with? Who knows. That's someone else's problem.

There's a dying world outside, chilled to the bone, and the Pipeworks are the only warm place left.

Pipeworks II has ended.

A summary post will be posted within the next few days with details regarding Goals, a feedback poll, and links to view the previously-private faction boards.

All discussion regarding the game, including complaints, suggestions, feedback, criticism, targeted threats, poetry, thinly-veiled sentiments of rage, and general comments, are encouraged. Dead players and spectators are also encouraged to post (who've always been allowed to post).

Linkcat, please don't archive this until the results of the poll are posted <3

Please PM any queries to myself and Naii_the_Baf. Actually, just post them here instead.

Offline CleanOnionTopic starter

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266540#msg1266540
« Reply #402 on: July 24, 2017, 01:43:47 am »


Summary


In this post, I'll be summarising some of the stuff in the game. The link to the poll will also go here, once I make it.

If you want something added here, let me know.

POLL HERE

Spoiler for Summary:

Personal Goals

At the start of the game, each player was given a Personal Goal and a Faction Goal which, in the event of a cooperative victory, would determine who wins. However, Linkcat has already decreed in a previous post in this thread (kudos to whoever finds me the URL) that in the event of the cooperative victory, no Master of Games points will be awarded.

Player NamePrimary faction (username)Spying on (username)GoalGoal state
JonathanCrazyJScientists (takefourcoughdrops)Brewers (Brewdog)I Don't Like You: Get a non-Spy Evicted from the faction you're spying in.Failed - JonathanCrazyJ was spying on the Brewers, in which nobody was evicted.
kaempfer13Scientists (sirekans)Don't Let the Monsters Out: Keep the lighting off for the duration of the game.Failed - the lights were activated several times throughout the course of the game.
mathman101Medics (MiracleMax)Lords (LordFarquaad)Doctor's Handwriting: Before Round 1 ends, pick any English word longer than eight letters and tell the Host. Include that word in a message in the thread at least once per phase without anyone mentioning it.Failed - mathman101 picked the word "communication" but failed to include this word in many rounds including (IIRC) rounds 1 and 2.
UTAlanMedics (MediocrityIncarnate)Cultists (OnTheDouble)Duty of Confidentiality: Correctly guess another player's personal goal (who is not a Medic) and privately inform the host.Failed - UTAlan did not make any guesses.
CoffeeDittoMedics (Medic)Do No Harm: Eliminate a faction.Pass - both Lords and Brewers were eliminated (Lords by the Medic's hands).
ddevans96Brewers (prince)Medics (ziegler)Distracted: Have the faction you're spying in spend a phase without using the action Expand.Pass - Medics spent several rounds without submitting any actions.
KuroaitouBrewers (strawberrydaiquiri)Lords (LordVoldemort)Talkative: Have all living players post in the thread during a single phase. Failed - no.
cribcreakyCultists (loki)Scientists (hawkinsmchawkinsface)Disruptor: Turn off External Communications during the same round that a message goes out.Failed - External Comms was activated once, but was not deactivated on the same round.
RyliCultists (Magdalenae)Brewers (Ryli)Arsonist: Start 8 fires in a single round.Passed - Ryli detonated a Thermobaric Bomb which created 8 fires.
ValerianFlameLords (ValerianFlame)Scientists (ValerianFlame)Coward: Get Evicted from a faction.Pass - ValerianFlame was evicted from the Lords (which resulted in his death).
Fippe94Lords (lordpendragon)Cultists (ferex)Not Friends: Have everyone enemies with Lords at the end of the game.Failed - Lords were allied to all factions but Cultists at the end of the game.

Faction Goals

All factions had the same goal: to be the first faction to control the generator at N15 for three rounds.

However, after the generator was moved:
  • Scientists were the first to control the generator for 3 rounds.
  • Medics were the first to control N15 for 3 rounds.

Hopefully the faction goal won't be the tiebreaker. If it is, I'll make an executive decision.

Who won?

My calculations for the Goal points are as follows:

LORDS
Players: +1
Spies: 0
TOTAL: 1

SCIENTISTS
Players: 0
Spies: -1
TOTAL: -1

MEDICS
Players: +1
Spies: -1
TOTAL: 0

BREWERS
Players: +1
Spies: -1
TOTAL: 0

CULTISTS
Players: +1
Spies: 0
TOTAL: 1

This puts Cultists and Lords in joint 1st place, ignoring Faction Goals. Including faction goals - assuming we're giving a point to both Scientists and Medics - then Medics are also in joint 1st place.

However, as there was no Generator at N15, this is dubious.

As Lords were eliminated, they cannot win.

Therefore, I declare Cultists the winners of Pipeworks II.

If you dispute my calculations, please let me know.


To those who would argue that the determination of the winner is unfair: the rules for working out a winner from the cooperative victory have been written down from the start. The definition of a cooperative victory is that everyone wins, but a criterion is needed for determining an overall winner. The Goal points system means nothing, a coop win is a win for all

Perhaps it is unfair. But the game is over, and that unfairness is gone

All of the faction boards are now publicly open
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:58:34 pm by CleanOnion »

Offline Ryli

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266541#msg1266541
« Reply #403 on: July 24, 2017, 02:01:50 am »
tfw the team that did everything is last with negative points and you win.

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266542#msg1266542
« Reply #404 on: July 24, 2017, 02:04:55 am »
the goal chances were way unfair; both of ours were unattainable and spy disadvantage meant that we had 2 chances to loose faction goals but only 1 to take away. It doesnt look like any gamemechanic compensated for that, in fact we were furthest from the generator and had the least rooms for a long time +troglodytes directly next to us
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266543#msg1266543
« Reply #405 on: July 24, 2017, 02:29:20 am »
What was not written, was that some factions would have more goals to work towards or more chances to get goal points taken from them. The difficulty of those goals doesnt seem to be tuned accordingly either, nor weere more chances to get one compensated with more chances to loose them.

Also the reason cribcreaky could trick me so easily was the significant spy disadvantage we had; surely there needed to be some balance for the fact I was vanilla and valeflame was definitely a spy
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 06:19:06 am by kaempfer13 »
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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266544#msg1266544
« Reply #406 on: July 24, 2017, 03:32:43 am »
JonathanCrazyJ   Scientists (takefourcoughdrops)   Brewers (Brewdog)   I Don't Like You: Get a non-Spy Evicted from the faction you're spying in.   Failed - JonathanCrazyJ was spying on the Brewers, in which nobody was evicted.
bonus points for spy goal; main reason this didnt work was activity, normally it would be at least attainable, still with evictions having a 50% chance to get greatly punished and requiring 3/4 of the members to support it in the same round you need to make a strong case to make it happen. The wording even implies that you need to have influenced it, though I guess that automatically happens if you vote to get them kicked
attainability in vacuum: somewhere between 3-7/10 (hard to tell with low activity making it impossible)

kaempfer13   Scientists (sirekans)      Don't Let the Monsters Out: Keep the lighting off for the duration of the game.   Failed - the lights were activated several times throughout the course of the game.
No spybonus. Keeping the lights off for some time isnt too hard as the lighting usually shouldnt seem like a priority as its fairly expensive and by the time we had power we rather made sure that hydroponics works for a while. It could be very usefull early game though (no more running into dead ends and wasted illuminates) and became mandatory later to fight the fire. The fact that it could not be prevented if a faction that shares control over the terminals decided to flip it on if it was within 3 rounds after someone fueled the generator, a single slipup resulted in a loss and it lasted all game made this very hard. attainability 2-3/10
mathman101   Medics (MiracleMax)   Lords (LordFarquaad)   Doctor's Handwriting: Before Round 1 ends, pick any English word longer than eight letters and tell the Host. Include that word in a message in the thread at least once per phase without anyone mentioning it.   Failed - mathman101 picked the word "communication" but failed to include this word in many rounds including (IIRC) rounds 1 and 2.
spybonus
hard to evaluate as it requires you to be online each round and find a word of decent length to fit in any post without it standing out
i give it a 2-5/10 attainability

UTAlan   Medics (MediocrityIncarnate)   Cultists (OnTheDouble)   Duty of Confidentiality: Correctly guess another player's personal goal (who is not a Medic) and privately inform the host.   Failed - UTAlan did not make any guesses.
spybonus
also much easier as a spy, still fairly challenging. Doesnt clearly state punishment for guessing wrong
one guess only: 2-3/10
a guess each round: 6/10
infinite guesses 10/10

CoffeeDitto   Medics (Medic)      Do No Harm: Eliminate a faction.   Pass - both Lords and Brewers were eliminated (Lords by the Medic's hands).
No spy bonus
requiring having a hand in it yourself:  3-4/10 actually eliminating a faction as a non-spy is really hard, as each invasion can be answered with a simple expand elsewhere and items and decay through splits with no influence werent all that punishing; however another spy of the team doing it for him did count, so its somewhat attainable
requiring no personal involvement 7/10

ddevans96   Brewers (prince)   Medics (ziegler)   Distracted: Have the faction you're spying in spend a phase without using the action Expand.   Pass - Medics spent several rounds without submitting any actions.
spybonus
despite expands opness easy, even assuming constant activity.  Between process starting, diplomacy, item crafting and using there were expandfree actions in each faction. Can be achieved any time, can be actively influenced, only failing condition is the end of the game 9/10

Kuroaitou   Brewers (strawberrydaiquiri)   Lords (LordVoldemort)   Talkative: Have all living players post in the thread during a single phase.    Failed - no.
Spybonus
impossible 1/10

cribcreaky   Cultists (loki)   Scientists (hawkinsmchawkinsface)   Disruptor: Turn off External Communications during the same round that a message goes out.   Failed - External Comms was activated once, but was not deactivated on the same round.
spybonus
welp, he cant read. Otherwise easy, can be achieved any time, hard to sabotage, may be hard to convince the team to turn off comm the same turn but not really 6/10 (reduced to 6/10 after considering there was only a subtle warning that the goal wasnt achieved yet)


Ryli   Cultists (Magdalenae)   Brewers (Ryli)   Arsonist: Start 8 fires in a single round.   Passed - Ryli detonated a Thermobaric Bomb which created 8 fires.
Pretty much: use your starting item at any point (within the pipworks). Only reason this doesnt get a 10/10 is that its drawbacks seem significant 7/10
ValerianFlame   Lords (ValerianFlame)   Scientists (ValerianFlame)   Coward: Get Evicted from a faction.   Pass - ValerianFlame was evicted from the Lords (which resulted in his death).
Spy bonus
Very easy to convince people you are a spy when you really are one, easier than to get someone else evicted, especially since both factions count for this. May not want to achieve that too early, but doesnt get much harder later. Also the faction spied on gets punished for doing the obviously correct thing. Just the fact how hard it is to evict in the first place dampers this a little 5-7/10

Fippe94   Lords (lordpendragon)   Cultists (ferex)   Not Friends: Have everyone enemies with Lords at the end of the game.   Failed - Lords were allied to all factions but Cultists at the end of the game.
Spybonus
Especially if you live till the end not all that hard, especially considering lords passive 4/10


taking averages (most restrictive option where i made assumptions), then substracting averages of spies
Scientists: 5+2.5-6-6=-4.5
medics: 3.5+2.5+3.5-9=0.5
brewers: 9+1-2.5-7=0.5
cultists: 6+7-2.5-4=6.5
lords: 6+4-1-3.5=5.5

I swear I did not try to make this add up to what reflects the end result; looks like this was bound to happen from the beginning

To clarify: spybonus did not affect my attainability ratings, it just made clear that this goal counts for twice as much when achieved
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:36:15 am by kaempfer13 »
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Offline Ryli

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Re: Pipeworks II - by CleanOnion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64551.msg1266546#msg1266546
« Reply #407 on: July 24, 2017, 03:42:32 am »
I suggested he left the comms alone as not to upset you, it didn't seem like the best option to step on our only allies' toes. :P

 

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