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Purity_Riot

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108364#msg108364
« Reply #540 on: July 05, 2010, 03:33:33 pm »
I'd say the same power of all of us in our non-master forms.

Blood is the only one who has dozens of forms.

Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108370#msg108370
« Reply #541 on: July 05, 2010, 03:55:51 pm »
ok, i am the one who you fight right before morte. and i join the victor of the fight, or remain loyal to morte.

Helios

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108402#msg108402
« Reply #542 on: July 05, 2010, 05:32:35 pm »
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By that system, Middle Plane residents, regardless of the strength and virtue of their character, would stand no chance against anyone from Heaven or Hell on the sole basis that the latter was granted and assigned a higher power number, which completely defeats the purpose of RPing and storytelling in general.
That's how it should be. No regular Middle Plane resident can defeat someone from a Higher Plane. However...

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For instance, the noblest and greatest hero on the Middle Plane you might evaluate as 400-500 at the maximum, which means that he would be obliterated within minutes by a "god", which is completely unfair and strips bare and conclusively kills any possibility of the finite and the humane, leaving space for nothing but competing detached divinities.
If someone from the Middle Plane is truly destined to kill someone at "god" level, then this Middle Plane hero's true power level would not be 400-500. He would appear to be that much, but at the moment of truth when he comes face to face to his god-level nemesis, then one way or another the hero's power level would be raised to a level that surpasses his enemy's.

In my world, you can only defeat someone by being stronger than him/her. Power level is the only thing that matters. I understand that "love" or some other factor may enable the hero to defeat an antagonist much stronger than himself, but in fact "love" or some other factor gave the hero more power so that he would be stronger than his opponent.

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Further, if you insist on maintaining these quantified power levels, then I will insist that they not be the sole, or even most important factor in determining the actual strength of the character.
As I said above, power level is not as absolute as you think. For example, love, hope, faith, empathy, and other positive emotions can raise one's power to a level that is utterly unreachable through normal means. You have seen the classic line of "I must beat him because everyone is counting on me", right? In that case, "hope" gave the hero enough power to defeat the villain.
Unless Argerael, Archangel of Fate, has pronounced a doom that Hero A is destined to kill Villain A, Fate has no involvement in the encounter. Heroes who are not necessarily fated to kill a "god" or a Higher Plane being may still do so, and you underestimate the power of the residents of the Middle Plane. As if case in point, the example of Xanriel was needed to be brought forth here (though the Fallen Druid did not kill the Singer, he could have done so, had he chosen, and yet, the former was not fated to defeat the latter).

Since according to your paradigm, the power level is all that matters, I will explain things according to that view: if positive emotions and virtues significantly enhance the power level variable, then negative emotions and vices must have the opposite effect. Therefore, Catyrael's actual power is much stronger than a 750 in Regular Form, though his base power may be 750, and this is not to mention Solraegiel, the very embodiment of idealistic nobility, whom would have far surpassed 1000, whereas Bloodshadow, whom has demonstrated nothing but selfishness, egoism, and arrogance would be the weakest of the masters, as per Purity's post.

Sirenes

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108489#msg108489
« Reply #543 on: July 05, 2010, 08:33:20 pm »
[OOC] If I may, I would like to request a continuation of this RP as soon as possible as well as that this little scuffle be no more than three posts each.  :D Thank you~

Purity_Riot

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108498#msg108498
« Reply #544 on: July 05, 2010, 08:45:56 pm »
OOC: I agree. I'd like Helios to post our arrival in heaven, because it's sort of his baby, but if you can't Helios, I will.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108501#msg108501
« Reply #545 on: July 05, 2010, 09:05:39 pm »
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If that's the case, than negative emotions and feelings should lower someone's power level
No. Strong emotions, no matter positive or negative, will increase a being's power level. I'm sure that you've seen evil villains that get stronger by feeding on the hatred and despair of others. Positive emotions usually win because invariably, evil just can't beat good. But I'd be really angry if you say that Bloodshadow is an evil character; he is not. He is only angry at Heaven because of the invasion of Hell, which contributed to the extinction of his race.

Anyways, I merely posted the thing about power levels to show Helios that being a "god" does not equal to being omnipotent. I actually prefer not to have a strictly classified system of power levels.

Another thing: If Xanriel is not there, then he won't be able to object when I kill Morte, right?
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Purity_Riot

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108505#msg108505
« Reply #546 on: July 05, 2010, 09:16:47 pm »
Eh, I don't care for set power levels either, but I'd still have to say that's about the way I'd order people by alignment. Bloodshadow is certainly the most evil of any of the Masters, as he embodies mostly negative emotions and actions.

Even given what you say, if positive emotions are more powerful than negative emotions, i.e. good winning over evil, and each of the Master's are equal before the application of this modifier, I'd have to say that the power levels still stand about the same, with Catyrael ranking at a 13, but not exactly far below Bloodshadow, as he's got the bonus power of purely good will.

Sirenes

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108515#msg108515
« Reply #547 on: July 05, 2010, 09:26:42 pm »
[OOC] Basically it's this. Love is stronger than anger. Period. Go with... a mother ripping a card door off against, say, blind rage. While, anger can overwhelm you and keep your from concentrating, love gives you determined focus. A specific goal. Though, love can lead to anger. So, in fact I believe anger would highly increase power, but weaken in the area of focus and competence in general.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108529#msg108529
« Reply #548 on: July 05, 2010, 09:38:24 pm »
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Bloodshadow is certainly the most evil of any of the Masters, as he embodies mostly negative emotions and actions.
Not necessarily "evil", but rather... "negative", as you might put it. As I've put on my character profile, Jonathan/Bloodshadow is utterly cold and ruthless, but he'll fight and protect his loved ones down to his last breath. But whatever, this isn't important so we should put this behind us.

But Purity, answer my question. I intend to kill Morte. While you originally wanted to object to that, Xanriel is no longer present to be able to object. So will you let me kill Morte?
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Purity_Riot

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108535#msg108535
« Reply #549 on: July 05, 2010, 09:41:14 pm »
Well, I certainly can't object, since I'm in heaven, but the group did vote not to kill him, and you'll still have Helios and the others there.

Purity_Riot

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108539#msg108539
« Reply #550 on: July 05, 2010, 09:45:23 pm »
If I was dividing everyone up by DnD Alignments, which I've already done because I'm a super nerd, then I'd have Jonathan as a Lawful Evil anti-villain

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Elements RPG! Part 3 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=6743.msg108541#msg108541
« Reply #551 on: July 05, 2010, 09:49:30 pm »
Anti-villain? I think you've found the right word. :)
But meh... I think he's more Chaotic Neutral or something... ???

The thing is, I want to at least kill another FG after Chaos Lord. The first time when we killed Chaos Lord, we saw that vortex of Void-energy rising from the FG's corpse; I want the group to at least see that vortex again once. For the first time, they have no idea what it was, but the second time should be enough to get them worried.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

 

blarg: