Elements Mafia – Siblings II: by ddevans96

[DoubleCapitals]

@dd: i know what OTL meant now. reread the survivor role. it states that he wins alive, regardless of whether the fgs or mafia win. it should be whether the fgs or villagers win.

[Newbiecake]

2 spots left. Hurry up people.

[ddevans96]

@dd: i know what OTL meant now. reread the survivor role. it states that he wins alive, regardless of whether the fgs or mafia win. it should be whether the fgs or villagers win.

Ah, okay. Addressed in the second post. I really should have posted the rules myself.


Anyways, the six extra roles will be as follows:

2) Civilian (Regular, for a total of 16)
1) Mystic (Pro-civilian. Can target every other round, blocks night action from happening)
1) Vigilante (Pro-civilian. Can target every other round, kills target unless is killed by FGs)
1) Sibling ( This will split the 3 Siblings and 1 Halfbloods into 2 pairs.)
1) Vampire (Pro-civilian, until night-killed by the mafia, then becomes pro-mafia instead of dying. Host will politely announce that no one died that night. Dying by any way other than night-kill just kills it.)

For a total of this:

5) False God
1) Halfblood

16) Civilian
1) Oracle
1) Archangel
1) Mystic
1) Vigiliante
3) Sibiling

1) Survivor
1) Vampire

[ddevans96]

Or, actually...instead of adding a halfblood and a jester, I could add a civilian sibling and a vampire (pro-civilian until night-killed, then becomes pro-mafia). I'd like to see people's thoughts on this

[killsdazombies]

<blockquote>Or, actually...instead of adding a halfblood and a jester, I could add a civilian sibling and a vampire (pro-civilian until night-killed, then becomes pro-mafia). I'd like to see people's thoughts on this </blockquote>

He sounds like a zombie... *Slowly reloads rifle*

[Laxadarap]

Or, actually...instead of adding a halfblood and a jester, I could add a civilian sibling and a vampire (pro-civilian until night-killed, then becomes pro-mafia). I'd like to see people's thoughts on this

Not gonna lie, I would LOVE to be a vampire.  Put it in.

[regen2k9]

<blockquote>Or, actually...instead of adding a halfblood and a jester, I could add a civilian sibling and a vampire (pro-civilian until night-killed, then becomes pro-mafia). I'd like to see people's thoughts on this </blockquote>

He sounds like a zombie... *Slowly reloads rifle*

But why would you kill the zom-... oh wait, nvm 

[OTL]

Or, actually...instead of adding a halfblood and a jester, I could add a civilian sibling and a vampire (pro-civilian until night-killed, then becomes pro-mafia). I'd like to see people's thoughts on this

I would prefer if you place in neither the jester or the vampire and just add a vanilla civ instead. No time to give a detailed argument (since I'm on my phone) but read here and here for arguments against both roles

[ddevans96]

I'm guessing by what you're linking you've also played (and probably also hosted) a lot of mafias, so I see your concern. However, the Vampire I am adding here is not the same as a Judas, as it's ability is not activated by lynching. I can make it hidden from the player until they are converted if you think that would help.

In addition, because of the nature of the night-kill in this setup, pretty much everyone should be able to tell when the Vampire has been converted.

The first link does give much stronger points against Jester though, but I had already decided that wouldn't work for us.

[OTL]

I'm guessing by what you're linking you've also played (and probably also hosted) a lot of mafias, so I see your concern. However, the Vampire I am adding here is not the same as a Judas, as it's ability is not activated by lynching.

Spoiler for Hidden:

While vampire is definitely slightly more limited in utility than judas, I find that a judas who gets converted via lynch is in deeper shit than one who gets converted by a nightkill

All of this is train of thought, so pardon bad paragraphing etc.
Worth noting is that I have never played with judas. Nevertheless, I can definitely see possible strategies using one.

Why would a judas be lynched? Either because it's day 1 and nothing more interesting came out or because he was acting scummy
Would surviving a lynch make him scummier? Yes, definitely
By surviving the lynch, it would make judas a prime lynch target for the next day.
Even if he claims governor protect, it would only work iff governor is mafia (governor could counterclaim otherwise and frankly, governor isn't a very important role anyway so it's safe for him to do so) and there was another good lynch candidate for that day's lynch (otherwise why would governor protect judas anyway?)
Therefore, odds of judas surviving 2nd day after conversion are slim and therefore judas (if informed) would rather avoid being converted by a lynch.

Now consider why judas would be nightkilled
He was way too pro-town
Being so pro-town, a doctor save is definitely plausible
Therefore, he can claim as such
Now the doctor (who obviously did not save him) has 2 choices
1. Counterclaim, vote off judas. But now doctor becomes a prime NK target, and doctor is quite the important role. A mafia-for-doctor trade is not such a bad deal, especially since said mafia wasn't even part of their ranks in the first place.
2. Play along with it, but try to gather enough suspicion on judas to get him lynched. Opens himself to being lynched though (who in their right mind would play against such an openly pro-town player), which may force a claim sooner or later (see 1)
Judas is in a lot better position if he gets converted by a nightkill

Then again, all of this is assuming standard mafia setup (no outside communication with players, barring specific roles like neighbourizer, masons and, of course, mafia). Since elements mafia is more of a werewolf setup (outside communication allowed) (I understand that this is technically incorrect, since werewolf just a themed game of mafia. Bear with me) (personally, I don't like this type of setup since I find it favours town a bit too much, but I digress), it is very possible that doctor can get himself into an alliance with town players, therefore getting someone else to do point 2 for him. I don't do a lot of werewolf setup games (hell, can't even remember any right now), so I can't comment on that.

tl;dr, while your point is valid, it is in judas' best interest to be nightkilled anyway so that's not really a huge disadvantage.

I can make it hidden from the player until they are converted if you think that would help.

Thanks, it certainly would . At least vampire can't plan around being converted right from day 1.

[ddevans96]

Er...I really don't need that long, unnecessary speech giving me an argument I already know well. I'm quite aware of what we're both saying and what I'm doing.

[OTL]

sorry, bit too used to churning out long essays after doing 2 today  :x