Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat

[rob77dp]

I'm VERY torn between thinking this MIGHT be a time to holster and going with typical play of shooting our way out of it. Works for Han Solo right (shoot first)?

If NK goes through, and all vig shots are either mafia-performed or town-shooting-town, then that confluence plus the way dominoes fell so far ----> gg-town? I feel like town!Oa snipes at one of Poke or kdz (I lean Poke in that group I think), and if Oa is scum then he shoots town no matter what. Oa - shoot Poke is my vote. Serp? Trident on www3 is also my vote --> come at me bro? (worldwiderob disbanded??!?)

[rob77dp]

rob, did andre not give any info with regards to his role usage and if you know what abilities some people have? or are you in the blind?

I have timpa's role usage input, yes. It outs some roles though so was holding until a role claim scenario? I attempted to crumb his info.

Is it consensus I out timpa's info even if it reveals seondaries of two living players?

[worldwideweb3]

you dont need to out as long as you know who they are

[rob77dp]

you dont need to out as long as you know who they are

So you lobby that I keep it private for now so you can NK me before revealing eh?

[worldwideweb3]

we really need to just holster this night phase. if anyone shoots, we kill them next phase as theyre most likely mafia, esp with oa and trident in the potential scum list, we dont want to give them firing potential.

[worldwideweb3]

you dont need to out as long as you know who they are

So you lobby that I keep it private for now so you can NK me before revealing eh?

i wish i was mafia, just sit back and relax as town kill  themself

[Pokechu]

Went surfing through MW's posts <3

Spoiler for Torb/Serp drama thoughts:

Bruh. So if any of those 3 are true, you either just hard claimed mafia or you just exposed GN. Both of which are a lynchable offence. Honestly, theres no loss to lynching you now, we either hit a mafia, and then we kill serp and hit another mafia, or you just got serp killed next night phase and we lose GN. So you are either whatever the psion role is or you are mafia and serp is either mafia or GN.

There is actually no way i believe any of this. TORB is too smart and analytical normally to damn near throw the game. Youre right, you wouldnt lie as town and i think this is a big lie. I suspect O R C H E S T R A T I N G

I dont see the merit in a sub lynch.
maybe i misremember, but this is how i expect sub to act, albeit with less obscure anime references. Is it cuz serp, (who has been revealed to have or not have Ame) voted sub? If he is GN he hasnt had enough time to find Subs alignment. This GN takes 2 night phases to find alignment (look at me improving my skills and reading the roles ). I dont really belive serp is GN tho. Nothing is adding up for me still and i have completely entered a pitch black tunnel of  on torb.  Sadly, at his point a torb lynch will give me the answers i want, but will probably give mafia answers too. Pretty darn conflicted but still comfortable with a torb death i guess.

i feel you MasterNoob, so the torb/serp stuff is too complex rn for me to get.

The torb serp stuff is like the only thing ive really been able to follow. still dont get all the sub pushing, or shock pushing...
TLDR for torb serp:
Torb tells everyone voting serp is not a good idea when serp had a couple votes on him.
Torb then votes on Rob claiming he wants him to talk. He then quickly swaps his vote to antia and said hes not lynching rob yet.
This is what kicked everything off. Then after quite a bit of pressure, torb claims he is either mafia, GN, or Psion and found GN. I guess he said this in a "generally" fashion according to serp, who btw seems to know everything torb thinks and vice-versa.

My theories are they are mafia buds who made a huge slip up, serp/torb invited the other to a family for PM stuff, or torb is GN and wants to use his second target to confirm serp. I cant get behind torb making the mistake of outting GN so early in the game, so i dont believe what he says for the most part. Right now im leaning on family, but i do think either serp or torb is mafia. One invited the other to the family to get direct PMs to a town. I would rather lynch torb over serp, cuz torb is the one that started this and serp just latched onto his new guardian. I still have no clue how Rob fits into all of this, even if torb did slip up with protecting serp, there is no way i see him accidentally voting on his mafia teammate then hopping off in such a fashion. I cant see it being an accident.

In the case they are both town, then i give up on trying to read into people without role information. I see 0 logic in any of it.

In hindsight these quotes might make him look bad. But I don't think so. I don't think pushing against Torb/Serp is a worthwhile avenue for scum because it's just fighting a losing battle; town will almost always side with the cop so MW would just get himself lynched. So in trying to prevent these town players from getting town cred, he would die and reveal himself as scum... thereby giving those town players even more town credit. Pushing Torb/Serp also makes MW into a potential vig target for any town players who suspect him. Just not a good idea for scum to push IMO , not sure why they would

Interesting you put Torb as confirmed town. I can think of at least 3 reasons he's not but I will say his actions have caused me to town read him.

I'll admit, I don't think Torb is scum, but I also wouldn't consider him confirmed town . Torb falls probably 2nd on my town reads next to serp, cuz no one hardclaims GN unless baiting a counterclaim, which it's wayyyy to early for that.
Torb isn't confirmed town because he could be scum attempting to bread crumb who actual gn is jic he gets trained and needs an excuse late game. I'm kinda going into hypotheticals now, all I'm saying is he is 90% most likely town, but definitely not confirmed.

Same as above applies, I fear this could kind of be "empty posting" coming from scum (considering possibilities that aren't actually possibilities and would never genuinely happen in order to make it seem like you're active in the thread). It is a bit silly saying "Torb is not confirmed town," not once but twice but then ending off with "all I'm saying is he's 90% likely to be town not 100!!!!" But I feel like scum would avoid this (in fear of being called out for exactly this) + I'm not sure if scum!MW would be willing to "open think" like this in the thread.
 

Spoiler for Extra:

Any thoughts on what the investigative roles should be doing?

This is also kinda scummy. Investigative roles are going to investigate their heaviest reads, and investigating roles are not something that should be discussed so early in public. It only helps scum with plans. I wouldnt base my entire read off something like this message, but i do wanna point it out. Also, coming from you, who definitely doesnt sound like a lost town, its extra unusual.

Last thing I want to point out is shocks death. I cant seem to figure it out. It seemed to me that the general consensus was to vig Naii. Since sky hard claimed not aqua, the only other person who voted to lynch shock in the latter day was W3. This doesnt necessarily point to scum!w3 i think, but that was definitely the time to get an extra kill on a town without raising too much sus. Me voting someone just cuz i thought they were using their role at an incorrect time didnt work out too well last game, so ill keep my vote where it is.

Hey mw, could town you consider a vote on kdz? I guess scum you could consider it too 

I'll look at his posts rn. He's been strategically forgettable this game. Moreso then like anyone else. Probably why I can't think of anything he's said of value actually. He did tell me to read the rules or get policy lynched so that's already a N-.

Posts 801 and 861. I quite like 861 since it is a good point that most people don't realize, scum has to try to fit people in a box. E.g. "X did Y which is a scum thing to do so they get my vote." This isn't even calling X scum, it's not saying they're suspicious as a whole but rather since they did one thing wrong, they're worthy of voting. Shows a complete lack of motivation to solve and this is true when someone goes around saying X player needs to be policy lynched.

I also have to give him credit for 801 because it is true. It seems genuine from MW and I just wonder what Sky's goal was in asking "what should the investigatives do?" It seems almost fabricated? It's a public thread you can read to see who's the most suspected player... or you can follow your own thoughts. Either way you're guaranteed a result. I'm still trying to decide what MW's thoughts on W3 mean... if he could clarify that that'd be great. But I liked these two posts.

I feel like these posts together are telling of MW's alignment, would be nice to hear what others think. I'm townreading him. I wish I wasn't though Trident on him could be funny LOL kind of thinking Trident should be used on one of W3/Sky/KDZ instead

not letting this get lastpaged xoxo

are yall sure we can't shoot one of W3/Sky/KDZ.... idk why rob is suggesting me to be shot it's kind of rude. why doesn't he suggest himself?

[kaempfer13]

rob has been alignementcopped by serp.

[rob77dp]

www3 - also, update your undertitle.... you've held Master title now of FOUR elements it looks like?

If we agree EVERYONE holsters, mafia will shoot anyway to try to get parity and isnta-win if they're all scum-vig roles. But if town holsters we might miss a chance to shoot scum. I still think we shoot - which likely surprises nobody.

[kaempfer13]

Agree that MW probably shouldnt be targeted, but we've got a lot of other things to think about rn.

[Pokechu]

rob has been alignementcopped by serp.

yes and???? don't suggest me to be shot w/o suggesting yourself... that's what i said and that's on what??? PERIOD POOH

[skyironsword]

Waiting on the vig isn't a winning strategy. Night's almost over, though, and it might be too late to get the vig to change targets now.