Poll

Who played the best mafia?

Submachine
1 (3%)
worldwideweb3
1 (3%)
PlayerOa
1 (3%)
serprex
2 (6.1%)
MasterNoob
9 (27.3%)
kaempfer13
8 (24.2%)
Pokechu
2 (6.1%)
andretimpa
0 (0%)
Naii_the_Baf
1 (3%)
rob77dp
3 (9.1%)
killsdazombies
1 (3%)
TheonlyrealBeef
0 (0%)
shockcannon
2 (6.1%)
skyironsword
2 (6.1%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: August 12, 2021, 05:20:11 pm

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Offline skyironsword

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305370#msg1305370
« Reply #120 on: July 20, 2021, 02:47:54 am »
Must be Watame.

Offline shockcannon

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305371#msg1305371
« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2021, 03:23:53 am »
Bruh hidden messages have been illegal for like the last 3 mafia's. C'mon kiddo, you know this.

Really? Guess I just got away with it for the last 3 mafias lol.  ;)
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Offline MasterWalks

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305372#msg1305372
« Reply #122 on: July 20, 2021, 03:59:52 am »
Smh, you're an American, plea the fifth sometimes...
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Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305373#msg1305373
« Reply #123 on: July 20, 2021, 01:28:35 pm »
There's so much shitposting I don't even know if there's something else (besides rule questions) in there. D:

While I'm here I should mention that I won't be available for a week, at the least. Will try to at least read up and cast votes, though.
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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305374#msg1305374
« Reply #124 on: July 20, 2021, 01:41:08 pm »
Remember to use your abilities if you have something useful too.
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305375#msg1305375
« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2021, 01:59:28 pm »
Ok hopefully the last big mechanics post from me (and first one with actual strategy now that i know how everything works), but i think we should get it right.
Spoiler for Hidden:
Categorized by what the roles do. People who fit multiple categories will be featured in each with the exact same text.
Spoiler for Cops:
Obv alignement cops are the big ones (note that while sora has an alignement specific ability she's impossible to confirm herself, so we can never be sure about her):
Amelia Watson
Time Traveler (Passive) - Amelia Watson always starts the game as an Idol and is unaffected by Tarot Reading.
Investimigate (ER) - Target another player, you learn their secondary role and all abilities they possess. If this is the second time you've targeted the same player, you learn their primary role as well.
Watson Concoction (ER) - Target player's investigative abilities fail this Night. If the target used Asacoco this Night, it fails due to an overdose and the ability they copied is permanently disabled.
Gn+. can be protected and doubles as rolecop. Roleblock is probably only usefull after confirming someone as scum and somehow failing to lynch them.

Tokino Sora
Actual Idol (Passive) - You always appear as an Idol when investigated.
Daisenpai (Passive) - You are unaffected by all secondary offensive abilities from players that debuted after you. (That's everyone.)
Silent Stalker (ER) - Target another player, you learn who they targeted this Night and what types of abilities they used. (I/O/D/S)
So You're The Enemy? (1U) - Target a player, if they are an Anti and you correctly name their secondary role, their abilities are permanently disabled.

ER is a usefull inforole. Considering its a soft rolecop you probably want to target different people most of the time, usually suspicious people should be prioritized.
For the 1U its very likely to fail(have no effect and fizzle with no refund) under normal circumstances. Only use on people you know the role of. Can be used to confirm one person that claimed by asking them to use their ability after getting hit by this. That is actually really usefull, gives us an extra ame check on a person that claimed with extra steps.


Rolecops: both alignement cops have a rolecop ability

Yuzuki Choco
Nurse's Touch (ER) - Target another player, the first time they would die this Night, they live instead. If they have an ability that was changed or disabled, restore the original ability. You can't target yourself or the same player twice in a row.
Physical Examination (ER) - Target another player, you learn which categories of abilities they possess, but not how many. (ER, EoR, #U, Passive)
Both abilities are very good and should be used every night. Nurse is a doc that cant selftarget and the usual cant protect same target twice in a row. use on townreads. The other one is a soft rolecop that should be used on someone different each night. prioritize scumreads/verifying claims.

Ookami Mio
Tarot Reading (ER) - Choose a secondary role, you learn which player if any has that role.
Shrine of the Wolf God (EoR) - Target another player, any offensive abilities used by or on your target fail.
ER cannot be used on Ame. When no particular role is a suspect in suspicious activity, it's probably best to identify the remaining power roles (yes also as town). Those would probably be the docs (choco, gura etc) and the ame replacements (ollie, rushia). It doesn't target so when it fails a direct roleblock occured.
The usefullness of the second role is kinda hard to gage, but for the most part it prevents roleblock and vigshots, but not the nightkill. Should be used most of the time, but being eor it may be good to save it for when its needed. can be used on townreads or scummy vigs.


Ninomae Ina'nis
Sanity Check (Passive) - You are unaffected by abilities from players who are under the effects of Asacoco, Watson Concoction, or HAACHAMACHAMA.
Priestess of the Ancient Ones (ER) - Choose up to two abilities, you learn which players were targeted by those abilities this Night, and any investigative results obtained. You may not choose the same ability twice.
This role duplicates the info allowing verification of that information (or obtaining it in the first place when the person isnt cooperating for one reason or another) on top of learning who was targeted by the abilities. assuming no vigs and no scum dies (which seems like a decent average length with so many vigs around) the game will last 4 night phases, which is just enough to name each inforole, so i think  only investigatives should be named (they are all er too).

Tracker/Tracer:
Sora see above
Gawr Gura
a (Passive) - a
Apex Predator (Passive) - You are unaffected by secondary killing abilities.
Bloop (ER) - Send Bloop to follow target player. You learn the names of anyone that targeted them this Night. The first time they would die this Night, they consume Bloop as emergency rations to survive and the Bloop ability is disabled permanently.
Trident (1U) - Target another player and spear them with your trident. Your target dies.
Bloop is a 1u doc that gets refunded whenever it fails on top of revealing everyone else that targeted the same target. can self target I think.
Also, 1 unrestricted vig.


Uruha Rushia
Necromancy (1U) - Target a dead player, raise them as a zombie of your alignment. There is a public notification revealing which player is revived, and they do not count for parity. They may not talk in the thread or a pad and you control their ability uses. If you die, they die as well. Any changes to their abilities while they were alive still apply, including # of uses remaining.
Date (ER) - Target another player, learn the names of anyone they targeted this Night.
No Cheating (1U) - If you learned of any targeting during a Date, target one of the involved players. Your target dies.
Revive can be used on a powerrole that will draw the nightkill directly. Considering identity and role are public the only way we can do better than drawing one nightkill is through protecting an undead ame from death (see docs) . then again scum might look for rushia directly which would kill both.
Info roles are always nice, so there should be a date every night.
Since reviving a cop and obtaining info yourselves isnt enough, this role also comes with a oneshot vig. as far as i can tell any cheater can be shot, even if it was more than one night ago, original target and all their targets. Quite powerfull indeed.


Honorabla mention oozora crossfiring tracks the target player, even though everything that comes in and out will be blocked.

Spoiler for Copycats/Vulture:

Uruha Rushia
Necromancy (1U) - Target a dead player, raise them as a zombie of your alignment. There is a public notification revealing which player is revived, and they do not count for parity. They may not talk in the thread or a pad and you control their ability uses. If you die, they die as well. Any changes to their abilities while they were alive still apply, including # of uses remaining.
Date (ER) - Target another player, learn the names of anyone they targeted this Night.
No Cheating (1U) - If you learned of any targeting during a Date, target one of the involved players. Your target dies.
Revive can be used on a powerrole that will draw the nightkill directly. Considering identity and role are public the only way we can do better than drawing one nightkill is through protecting an undead ame from death (see docs) . then again scum might look for rushia directly which would kill both.
Info roles are always nice, so there should be a date every night.
Since reviving a cop and obtaining info yourselves isnt enough, this role also comes with a oneshot vig. as far as i can tell any cheater can be shot, even if it was more than one night ago, original target and all their targets. Quite powerfull indeed.


Kureiji Ollie
Imitation Game (3U) - Target a dead player, gain one of their abilities of your choice. You cannot choose the same category of ability multiple times. (ER, EoR, #U, Passive)
ER should be reserved for investimigate. #U are all very good except for mukirose and No cheating which do nothing themselves. for passives only haato's and watames protect from the nightkill (once). I dont think the EoR is worth.


Spoiler for Docs:
Akai Haato/Haachama
Coexist (Passive) - The first time you would die during the Night, one of your personalities dies instead, and you can no longer use their ability. You choose the priority during Night 0 and can change it at any time.
Akai Haato - Red Heart (ER) - Target a player. The first time they would die this Night, Akai Haato dies instead.
Haachama - HAACHAMACHAMA (ER) - Target a player. They become HAACHAMACHAMA. A random ability of theirs is replaced with this ability. If a #U ability with multiple remaining uses is chosen, they get a copy of this ability for each remaining use.
Extra life is always nice. First ability is a doc at the cost of the bullet proof vest when it does work. Use on townreads or save it for ame equivalent (ollie and rushia can replace ame after death, which is arguably better, but we have no guarantee both are town. and rushias ame has their role already revealed)
Second ability is a runaway roleblock. i dont think it should be used at all, if you hit a town you take away one of their abilities and if you hit scum they can put the roleblock to use.

This one costs both the ability and bulletproof vest when successfully used.

Yuzuki Choco
Nurse's Touch (ER) - Target another player, the first time they would die this Night, they live instead. If they have an ability that was changed or disabled, restore the original ability. You can't target yourself or the same player twice in a row.
Physical Examination (ER) - Target another player, you learn which categories of abilities they possess, but not how many. (ER, EoR, #U, Passive)
Both abilities are very good and should be used every night. Nurse is a doc that cant selftarget and the usual cant protect same target twice in a row. use on townreads. The other one is a soft rolecop that should be used on someone different each night. prioritize scumreads/verifying claims.

Gawr Gura
a (Passive) - a
Apex Predator (Passive) - You are unaffected by secondary killing abilities.
Bloop (ER) - Send Bloop to follow target player. You learn the names of anyone that targeted them this Night. The first time they would die this Night, they consume Bloop as emergency rations to survive and the Bloop ability is disabled permanently.
Trident (1U) - Target another player and spear them with your trident. Your target dies.
Bloop is a 1u doc that gets refunded whenever it fails on top of revealing everyone else that targeted the same target. can self target I think.
Also, 1 unrestricted vig.



Spoiler for vigs:
vigs have an unusually bad rep in this forum. Yes, most of the time you will hit town, but if you wait for the next nightkill instead you can be absolutely sure that a town dies. The longer the game goes the higher the percentage of mafiadirected kills, so take your shots while you can, provided you have a clue what you are doing (obv form some scumreads first if at all possible). Since you can't shoot yourself you are more likely to hit someone from the other faction than someone who would be chosen at completely random.

All of them work the same except aqua has multiple shots, but is restricted to lowposters/lategame, rushia is restricted to people she stalked and watame has to reveal part of her intent to her target before dealing the final blow. Aqua should kill people that simply dont post enough to ever show themselves town, unless a scumread happens to also qualify. there is 2 shots and ~4 nights to use them so use much more liberally than people here would say. The rest should just shoot decently confident scumreads unless they already know it would fail (see immunities).

Minato Aqua
Sololive (Passive) - You are unaffected by Kiryu Kai and Oozora Family.
For the Win (2U) - Target a player whose post count is among the lowest 4 of living players, they die.
Clutch Gamer (Passive) - If you are the only remaining member of your alignment, you and your abilities become unaffected by all other abilities. If you are an Idol, immediately perform a kill on any remaining Antis before the phase changes.

Gawr Gura
a (Passive) - a
Apex Predator (Passive) - You are unaffected by secondary killing abilities.
Bloop (ER) - Send Bloop to follow target player. You learn the names of anyone that targeted them this Night. The first time they would die this Night, they consume Bloop as emergency rations to survive and the Bloop ability is disabled permanently.
Trident (1U) - Target another player and spear them with your trident. Your target dies.
Bloop is a 1u doc that gets refunded whenever it fails on top of revealing everyone else that targeted the same target. can self target I think.
Also, 1 unrestricted vig.


Tsunomaki Watame
Tsunomaki Janken (ER) - Target a player during the Day. Play a game of rock paper scissors with them during the Night by PMing your choice to the host. If you win, their abilities fail. If you lose or draw, nothing happens.
Mukirose (1U) - Throw Mukirose during a Tsunomaki Janken game. You automatically win.
Gun (1U) - Throw gun during a Tsunomaki Janken game. Your target dies.
Respawn (Passive) - If you are killed during the Night, you are revived at the start of the next Night Phase and this ability is disabled. You are allowed to initiate a Tsunomaki Janken by sending a target during the Day.
Roleblock with extra steps and letting the target know what caused it. The vig part is where most of the power lies.

Calliope Mori
Guide to the Underworld (Passive) - When any player dies, they may pass on a final message to you during the first 24 hours after their death.
Reaper's First Apprentice (1U) - Target another player, they die. This ability bypasses all defensive abilities. If you target Kureiji Ollie or a player raised by Necromancy, your ability use is refunded upon resolution.
If you messed up your breadcrumbs you can pray Calli is town and lay it all bare to her so it can reenter the thread. otherwise this is a vig that wont kill Ollie.

Uruha Rushia
Necromancy (1U) - Target a dead player, raise them as a zombie of your alignment. There is a public notification revealing which player is revived, and they do not count for parity. They may not talk in the thread or a pad and you control their ability uses. If you die, they die as well. Any changes to their abilities while they were alive still apply, including # of uses remaining.
Date (ER) - Target another player, learn the names of anyone they targeted this Night.
No Cheating (1U) - If you learned of any targeting during a Date, target one of the involved players. Your target dies.
Revive can be used on a powerrole that will draw the nightkill directly. Considering identity and role are public the only way we can do better than drawing one nightkill is through protecting an undead ame from death (see docs) . then again scum might look for rushia directly which would kill both.
Info roles are always nice, so there should be a date every night.
Since reviving a cop and obtaining info yourselves isnt enough, this role also comes with a oneshot vig. as far as i can tell any cheater can be shot, even if it was more than one night ago, original target and all their targets. Quite powerfull indeed.


Spoiler for Neighborhoodfounders:
These 2 can invite people into an exclusive pad with extra benefits. There is no guarantee they'll have the same alignement so choose wisely.


Oozora Subaru
Oozora Police (ER) - Target a player, apply one of the following effects.
     -Target is unaffected by secondary abilities other than Oozora Police this Night.
     -Target is unable to use secondary abilities this Night.
Good Cop Bad Cop (Passive) - If both effects of Oozora Police are applied to the same target, the player who applied the first effect learns the names of anyone they attempted to target this Night.
Oozora Family (2U) - Target another player, they join your family and gain the Oozora Police ability for as long as you are alive. You may communicate in a private pad.
Upon rereading i realized that this a glorified iridium warden with a bit more control+ neighboring power (that also shares the power). At first i thought the ability should be given out asap, but really it just ends up blocking a lot of abilities when used, so the neighboring aspect is more important. Try to make a group of people of only townsfolk where you can share information that the mafia shouldnt hear about, if and only if you trust everyone in there.



Kiryu Coco
Kiryu Kai (ER) - Target a player. They join the Kiryu Kai and gain the Asacoco ability. If a member of the Kiryu Kai is targeted by a secondary killing ability, that ability is redirected to you. If you die, the oldest member of the Kiryu Kai becomes the new head and gains this ability. Members of the Kiryu Kai may communicate in a private pad.
Asacoco (1U) - Choose one of your ER or EoR abilities, this becomes a copy of that ability that bypasses defensive roles.
3500 Year Old Dragon (Passive) - You are unaffected by secondary killing abilities.
See Subaru, except this time there is no restrictions on member count and the ability will be marginally usefull for sure (unless ame gets mixed up). Considering any member becomes immune to vigging while coco lives (and the trust matter discussed in Subaru) members should still be carefully chosen. Its not mandatory to use it every night.

I dont feel like listing all the (anti-)roleblocks separately, if you want an exclusive list of those make it yourself.

Spoiler for Immunities:
alignment check: sora
Vig immunity: gura, coco (and anyone in her clan other than oldest member unless it does), sora (also immune to some roleblocks)
1 vest: watame, haato

unrecruitable: aqua
conditional full role immunity: ina












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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305376#msg1305376
« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2021, 02:07:17 pm »
[color=nightonevisitkaempf]I have no idea what's going on...How much time left do I have to read the rules before I have to do something?[/color]


Yikes, openly admitting to having no clue what your abilities consequences are, yet targeting me anyway. Not that i would expect anything else from you... i suppose minor townpoints for apparently not having a scumteam to explain stuff to you.

But if you want to read sth even longer than the actual rules explaining how to handle roles see my previous post.
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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305377#msg1305377
« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2021, 02:40:40 pm »
Kae, do you think there is any point in forming reads during this no-info night? I want someone logical's opinion on this.
And we keep driving into the night
It's a late goodbye, such a late goodbye...

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305378#msg1305378
« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2021, 02:50:32 pm »
They'll be horrible inaccurate obviously, even the best of us are noobs by mafiastandards. That said, daystart mafias are in fact common and people do find ways to justify their votes (with absolutely no mechanical info).
By comparison we get unusually much information to start with even if none of the info we can obtain night 1 is immediately alignementindicative.
Full disclosure though, i dont have any better read than "shock is very openly being an idiot again, looks like town" (he was more subdued, but just as idiotic in his scumgame) yet.
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Offline serprex

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305379#msg1305379
« Reply #129 on: July 20, 2021, 03:30:12 pm »
Quote
otherwise this is a vig that wont kill Ollie.

My understanding is that Calli gets a free kill on zombies/Ollie. Linkcat please confirm

also wtf no info night? There's ivestigative roles, so there's still info

But regardless of info roles, the best way to make reads are by reading reads

Offline skyironsword

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305380#msg1305380
« Reply #130 on: July 20, 2021, 03:30:36 pm »
Confirmed town: Submachine
Probably town: shockcannon
Probably mafia: worldwideweb3, PlayerOa, antiaverage, andretimpa, Naii_the_Baf, rob77dp, killsdazombies, TheonlyrealBeef, MasterWalks
Confirmed mafia: serprex, kaempfer13

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 77 - by Linkcat https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68254.msg1305381#msg1305381
« Reply #131 on: July 20, 2021, 03:43:09 pm »
Oh i also missed that Calli kills through defensive abilities, which includes vig immunities and (most) docs (btw is bloob a hybrid defensive/investigative or only 1 of the two?).

@sky good thing Sub and Torb havent discussed mechanics yet (which is odd actually, they are usually interested in that stuff), otherwise your supposed team would be overflowing.
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