Poll

Who played the best mafia?

MasterWalks
3 (8.1%)
Naii_the_Baf
0 (0%)
worldwideweb3
4 (10.8%)
Linkcat
11 (29.7%)
PlayerOa
1 (2.7%)
shockcannon
0 (0%)
andretimpa
1 (2.7%)
iancuboringmarian
1 (2.7%)
kaempfer13
0 (0%)
mathman102 (only after sub)
6 (16.2%)
TheonlyrealBeef
10 (27%)
Annele
0 (0%)
RootRanger
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: July 08, 2021, 04:30:52 pm

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Offline PlayerOa

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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304850#msg1304850
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2021, 03:04:41 pm »
Is lynching players when they're asleep still the meta?
There’s a distinct difference between sleeping 8 hours and 48 hours :-X

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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304851#msg1304851
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2021, 03:34:56 pm »
Wake me up once we've lynched a European.
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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304852#msg1304852
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2021, 06:00:12 pm »
This still gives mafia information about who the GN can be. Since they know all alignments, every time someone gets it wrong, that's a name crossed on their list. Unless we go galaxy brain and allow GN to lie and rely on actual crumbs about the correct reads.
That's true, but it's information they can't really act on without risk of revealing their own members. Consider the example where Player A correctly name drops Player B as mafia. At this point, either Player A has chosen a mafia member randomly, or Player A is the GN and identified an actual mafia member. The former is actually a lot more likely, as long as there are a few players providing names in addition to the GN themself. If mafia acts on this information and nightkills Player A, the civs can use this result to lynch Player B. Mafia ends up making a 1-for-1 trade which they definitely cannot afford to make.

It doesn't strictly need to be the statement "If I die and I'm GN...". That information can be conveyed through votes as well - this is why I think a civ with no information would actually be slightly better off picking a random target rather than just joining the biggest bandwagon. I'm sure this is common sense to the really advanced players here, but I've played a few mafias and am just now fully understanding this so I think it's important to share.

This is essentially a really powerful halfway point between the GN 100% hiding and 100% revealing. The former provides no information to the civs, and the latter gets the GN killed.

Damn, Root, maybe we shouldn't have killed kaempfer. It looks like shock lost his motivation and the game's just not as fun this way.
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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304853#msg1304853
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2021, 06:55:50 pm »
Motivation is a meaningless front
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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304854#msg1304854
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2021, 07:03:27 pm »
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Naii_the_Baf (1) - worldwideweb3

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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304855#msg1304855
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2021, 07:12:07 pm »
What even is that vote.

Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304856#msg1304856
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2021, 07:13:18 pm »
This still gives mafia information about who the GN can be. Since they know all alignments, every time someone gets it wrong, that's a name crossed on their list. Unless we go galaxy brain and allow GN to lie and rely on actual crumbs about the correct reads.
That's true, but it's information they can't really act on without risk of revealing their own members. Consider the example where Player A correctly name drops Player B as mafia. At this point, either Player A has chosen a mafia member randomly, or Player A is the GN and identified an actual mafia member. The former is actually a lot more likely, as long as there are a few players providing names in addition to the GN themself. If mafia acts on this information and nightkills Player A, the civs can use this result to lynch Player B. Mafia ends up making a 1-for-1 trade which they definitely cannot afford to make.

It doesn't strictly need to be the statement "If I die and I'm GN...". That information can be conveyed through votes as well - this is why I think a civ with no information would actually be slightly better off picking a random target rather than just joining the biggest bandwagon. I'm sure this is common sense to the really advanced players here, but I've played a few mafias and am just now fully understanding this so I think it's important to share.

This is essentially a really powerful halfway point between the GN 100% hiding and 100% revealing. The former provides no information to the civs, and the latter gets the GN killed.

This in mind, it would possibly be the "best" strategy for this to have everyone point out a single, unique person. All mafia members are guaranteed to be named, and the GN gets to confirm someone without revealing themselves. When we find out who GN is we know who's safe and who's not.

We could possibly set up who "checks" who during the night phases, including phases where GN is on cooldown. However, it's a huge risk if Damsel, Warden or FFQ are mafia, so I'm not entirely on board with this.

Having everyone pretend to be GN checking someone at their own discretion would be better to avoid said risk, and simply have everyone name a unique person during day phases, although it could be a problem if someone names GN's check before they do. It's still not entirely reliable because andre's right in that it could potentially cross out 5 possibilities every two nights. In this case, both GN skipping a phase and doing this every night should throw off mafia somewhat.

I'm still not entirely convinced this is the way to go with GN, but if we do go that way, these are my thoughts.



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Let's change tied wagons. Not sure if shock's just shitposting or if he's talking in riddles.
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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304857#msg1304857
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2021, 07:36:37 pm »
EBWOP

[...]It's still not entirely reliable because andre's right in that it could potentially cross out 6 possibilities every two nights.[...]
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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304858#msg1304858
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2021, 07:43:57 pm »
What even is that vote.

"a civ with no information would actually be slightly better off picking a random target rather than just joining the biggest bandwagon. I'm sure this is common sense to the really advanced players here"
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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304859#msg1304859
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2021, 07:57:43 pm »
So basically, have all of town throw in random votes, hope rng isn't a b and actively invite mafia to manipulate voting? Then derive mafia from the manipulation afterwards.

I'd rather understand a strategy than go along with it, just because someone tells me it's for smart or advanced players or some such.

Also, afaik, the quote refers to GN targets, not lynch targets.

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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304860#msg1304860
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2021, 07:58:52 pm »
EBWOP: presumed/claimed GN targets, rather than actual targets.

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Re: Elements Mafia 76 - by serprex https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=68249.msg1304861#msg1304861
« Reply #95 on: June 23, 2021, 08:01:58 pm »
What even is that vote.

"a civ with no information would actually be slightly better off picking a random target rather than just joining the biggest bandwagon. I'm sure this is common sense to the really advanced players here"

Implying you are good  :P

About the GN thing I think that making red and green claims in the same proportion as current town/mafia players (and taking care to avoid too many contradictory claims) would optimize the information while still mitigating the risk. (gotta double check the odds tbh but it looks sound to me)
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