Poll

Who played the best mafia?

TheonlyrealBeef
1 (4.5%)
Linkcat
4 (18.2%)
PlayerOa
5 (22.7%)
Coffeeditto
0 (0%)
MasterWalks
0 (0%)
Naesala
0 (0%)
worldwideweb3
2 (9.1%)
shockcannon
5 (22.7%)
iancudorinmarian
0 (0%)
kaempfer13
0 (0%)
killsdazombies
0 (0%)
serprex
1 (4.5%)
Naii_the_Baf
0 (0%)
andretimpa
4 (18.2%)
Calindu
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Voting closed: September 18, 2020, 08:09:08 pm

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Offline shockcannon

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302663#msg1302663
« Reply #600 on: September 01, 2020, 09:12:46 pm »
Naii_the_Baf (3) - PlayerOa, Naesala, Calindu
Calindu (2) - Naii_the_Baf, killsdazombies
Coffeeditto (2) - kaempfer13, andretimpa
kaempfer13 (1) - shockcannon

This vote could go on kdz also and I'll switch if people would rather lynch kdz first. Writing up follow up post now.
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Offline shockcannon

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302664#msg1302664
« Reply #601 on: September 01, 2020, 10:07:16 pm »
Jury is now in session.

Players on trial for their crimes:
kaempfer13
killsdazombies

Evidence:
Spoiler for Part I:
To gain trust, I'll start by sharing all night actions and info gathered thus far (which is technically nothing, but nothing can sometimes be even more valuable).

N0 - Ghost of the Past
This role was breadcrumbed in my very first post.
I'm targeting kaempfer13 tonight.

If you had clicked on quote on this post, you would have noticed that at the end of the sentence there are two random colors with no text. Yellow and dimgray, the respective colors for time and darkness. The only role that has ties with time and darkness would be ghost of the past due to its usage in ghostmare. I did in fact target kaempfer. Partially for the memes, partially because I had already started to suspect some odd play out of him. First, we have the fact that he pushed quite hard for a no vig scenario. Second, it felt like he was being a little more aggressive than normal and looking to establish control a lot earlier, with more assertive statements rather than questioning from the past. Now, this means absolutely nothing because N0 reads are absolutely worthless in my opinion and I will always believe that. But it was more than enough to justify using ghost of the past on him, especially because I knew there was a high chance he would try to policy lynch me and I wanted to spite him. Terrible town play? Maybe. But at least if I go down, he's useless for the rest of the game so maybe he'll think twice before randomly lynching me.

N1 - Psion
I breadcrumbed this here:
Lastly, at least one other person should already know my role. So maybe try asking around.
Obviously, I had no way of knowing if someone knew my role. But what's the only role that does let people know other roles? Well it's psion. Psion has 5 letters, "so maybe try asking around" has 5 words. No other role in the game has 5 letters.
I did indeed use this role on andretimpa. There was some discussion about how Calindu (if i recall) messed up by giving away that andre targeted serprex and was potentially a crusader turned golden nymph. I figured it was possible andre gave out a fake role to hide this potential scenario and I wanted to check for GN in case I rolled crusader soon after and could grab a GN with 100% certainty. It potentially increases my odds of GN by 50% because now I can roll vulture, GN, OR crusader.

However, I will acknowledge that this is a potential mafia move because knowing if andre is GN or not would let mafia know if they need to kill him immediately or not. But then why would my theoretical teammate waste an anubis on andre as well? I'm going to use Anubis to get a guaranteed kill on someone if I already plan on killing them, not a conditional kill that only happens if a player happened to have had a role. Also, lowkey, I'm pretty sure using Anubis on a town to guarantee a kill that's pretty much always going to go through anyways, and on someone who isn't even close to a confirmed town is just such a bad play for mafia. I won't waste my time ranting, but the latter part of this post is going to talk about who the mafia Anubis is, because that's a real lead and we should witch hunt this, because it's all we really have besides "our feelings," which we know are not always 100% accurate, and are sometimes -500% accurate.

N2 - Iridium Warden
This was breadcrumbed here:
I'm targeting coffee tonight.
Within the earth lies the secrets of the elements.
If you click quote on the post, you will notice that a sentence is written in transparent color. The message reads, "Within the earth lies the secrets of the elements."
The only roles that are earth creatures are graboid, shreiker, and iridium warden. Iridium is an element on the periodic table, hence the word "elements at the end of the sentence. "Lies the secrets" indicates that I lied about my visible statement, meaning that I did not target coffee. I, in fact, targeted no one as I wasn't planning to block anyone, but I did want to see if anyone would react to this post, either by commenting or through night actions. It appears that Coffee forgot to use his ability. I was hoping others would share their roles first because I was curious if anyone visited either me or coffee last night, expecting me and coffee to visit each other. Luckily, this lack of info is irrelevant to my revelations so I don't mind posting now. It's also quite likely, that this bait did not result in anything noteworthy.
Spoiler for Part II:
Now we get to the juicy stuff. So the only real thing we have to work off is that fact that someone gave andretimpa immaterial N1, which I'm going to assume is simply a 100% mafia move. The only way I see this being made by a townie, is if that townie is me, and unfortunately it's not, which makes this situation a little bit harder to decipher.

Now someone brought up this idea of kaemp lying about his action and his teammate being the one who gave momentum. I actually thought this was completely ridiculous and what would be the point, but then I started to see something. There is a scenario where this is actually useful. Each player has a different aura about them and certain actions/comments will be more believable if said by a different person. So I could see a scenario where kaempf + teammate decided that they would remain hidden better if kaempf were the one to give momentum, while the teammate was the one to lie about their role.

So who is the other mafia? Well, I'm pretty inclined to believe it's kdz. KDZ claims to have been seraph and used divine shield n1. Now this is a bold claim, because it's very easily confirmable by someone else having tried to target kdz. Obviously that didn't happen. Now it's very possible, KDZ is getting unlucky and was really seraph, but this is possible the most suspicious looking role for a mafia Anubis to have claimed.

You might be saying, all my claims are ridiculous and have nothing else backing them except a potential scenario that is just as likely as any other? Well good thing we have more evidence. If we look at lynch logs, we have kaempf and kdz taking out ian on day 2. They knew no one was voting, and couldn't believe their eyes when they get a free lynch for only 2 votes. They eliminate a silent player who gives away 0 info by dying, while keeping all the prime suspects in play. Additionally, there's almost no repercussions for this lynch. They can blame it on afk town or breaking a tie vote, or literally anything. Additionally, now that we have some sort of concrete evidence we can insert our feelings and see if they match up.

Well, kaempf aggressively tried to get me lynched day 1 and it took me a while to figure out why. Policy lynch just didn't feel right. Last mafia game, kaempf actually tried to save me when I was being policy lynched for using Rita. So what's going on here? Well I think it's because I said I targeted kaempf n0 and was not willing to share my role. He kept prying for my role despite getting 0 system messages and I get the feeling he was worried I put a fly on him. This would let me see his N1 activities that he had been planning. Hence the aggressive push to get me killed and constant prying for me to share my role.

It's also possible that kaempf actually was amber nymph n1. He could use it on the same target that his teammate was giving immaterial. If he thought I was watching his actions, then he would be cleared from guilt by using a non-Anubis move on the same target that got immaterial.

Now is this all speculation and potential BS? Sure, but it's one heck of a case and I at least had fun writing it and coming up with the idea. Is it believable? I'd argue it's more believable than any other arguments so far, since those all seem to be based solely on reads, so I'm going with it until someone gives me something better.
Verdict:
GUILTY

Spoiler for P.S.:
Something that's uncomfortable is the amount of players who have claimed Anubis straight up. Like, there's been an unusual amount. These are potential suspects as well, who could be claiming their role correctly in case someone used psion on them, but are lying about usage, since they realized they did not get caught.
Watchlist:
PlayerOa
Naii_the_Baf
anyone else who claimed Anubis (I think there was 1 more)
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Offline rob77dp

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302665#msg1302665
« Reply #602 on: September 01, 2020, 10:42:32 pm »
EXTENDED 24HRS.
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Offline killsdazombies

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302666#msg1302666
« Reply #603 on: September 01, 2020, 10:45:43 pm »
As much as I love your Masterposts shock, I am saddened I didn't even get a spotlight in my own accusation post.

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302667#msg1302667
« Reply #604 on: September 01, 2020, 10:52:05 pm »
@shock The other one that claimed Anubis is Nae, but MW + rob derping messages confirms that she targetted herself.

About the rest of the evidence, try rereading things assuming kdz is town. The people in your watchlist sound much more believable as a potential partner for kae. I'd rather sort kae on D4 tho.
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Offline killsdazombies

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302668#msg1302668
« Reply #605 on: September 01, 2020, 10:53:05 pm »
Seriously though, idc much about kae, but placing a vote well before eod to break a tie on a player I historically have voted for because I dislike their style of play is pretty flimsy evidence. Idc much about kae, they just happened to vote on a person I was fine with killing. And how ballsy would I have to be to gamble on 0 people targeting me night 1 to fake a Seraph claim. I demonstrated an attempt to soft bait, which is about as crumbed as a seraph should post. I just wish you had anything I could actually argue with, but so far your major condemnation is that I voted in a round where no one else bothered to cast a vote. Why would the mafia put a spotlight on themselves? It doesn't make sense.

Also, OOC, aren't hidden messages banned? I thought we had this come up before and it was considered akin to a coded message, but forgive me if I'm wrong.

Offline shockcannon

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302669#msg1302669
« Reply #606 on: September 01, 2020, 11:04:13 pm »
It's not in this mafia's rules and it's also technically not hidden.
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Offline killsdazombies

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302670#msg1302670
« Reply #607 on: September 01, 2020, 11:08:35 pm »
It's not in this mafia's rules and it's also technically not hidden.

Still ooc - Fair enough, Maybe I'm remembering something from somewhere else. My long term memory has been garbage lately.

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302671#msg1302671
« Reply #608 on: September 01, 2020, 11:32:35 pm »
OOC:

@kdz

That was mafia 72─ shock got modkilled for hiding a message in bbc. That rule was set by the host (Ginyu), not as a general mafia rule, so it's particular to that mafia and not global.
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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302672#msg1302672
« Reply #609 on: September 01, 2020, 11:34:44 pm »
OOC:

@kdz

That was mafia 72─ shock got modkilled for hiding a message in bbc. That rule was set by the host (Ginyu), not as a general mafia rule, so it's particular to that mafia and not global.

Ah okay, thank you

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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302673#msg1302673
« Reply #610 on: September 01, 2020, 11:57:24 pm »
Naii_the_Baf (2) - PlayerOa, Calindu
Calindu (2) - Naii_the_Baf, killsdazombies
Coffeeditto (2) - kaempfer13, andretimpa
kaempfer13 (2) - shockcannon, Naesala

I've been reading Kaemp as scum all game, shock seems to have a good case. I'm not convinced about kdz, but shock's write up seems pretty strong otherwise.

Also, a transparent reminder; I have adrenaline, so the vote isn't tied at 2's. And yes, I had Anubis, claimed I targeted myself, and that's confirmed by rob mistake and MW.
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Re: Elements Mafia 75 - by rob77dp https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67948.msg1302674#msg1302674
« Reply #611 on: September 02, 2020, 12:14:35 am »
Naii_the_Baf (2) - PlayerOa, Calindu
Calindu (2) - Naii_the_Baf, killsdazombies
Coffeeditto (2) - kaempfer13, andretimpa
kaempfer13 (2) - shockcannon, Naesala

I've been reading Kaemp as scum all game, shock seems to have a good case. I'm not convinced about kdz, but shock's write up seems pretty strong otherwise.

Also, a transparent reminder; I have adrenaline, so the vote isn't tied at 2's. And yes, I had Anubis, claimed I targeted myself, and that's confirmed by rob mistake and MW.

I dont think adren affects the voting

 

blarg: kaempfer13,killsdazombies,PlayerOa,Naii_the_Baf