Here is my reasoning, assuming kaempfer has core of reason. If he had any other cores, we would have seen the use by now.
Rita Rossweisse targeted me. I'm not sure what to make of it wrt ritas alignement, but i dont like it. I was a little surprised to learn that even though im forced to target her, i still have no idea who she is. Seems to be some kind of impressive mindcontrol ability.
This is wifom trying to indicate that he doesn't have the core, but still voicing his annoyance because being redirected onto shock with his core doesn't yield positive results.
dawn to dusk (1) - killsdazombies
DoubleCapitals (5) - Calindu, Coffeeditto, rob77dp, Submachine, TheonlyrealBeef
No Lynch (1) - shockcannon
MasterWalks (1) - moehrpi
worldwideweb3 (1) - andretimpa
shockcannon (4) - Naii_the_Baf, DoubleCapitals, MasterWalks, iancudorinmarian
Submachine(1) - worldwideweb3
iancudorinmarian (3) - Linkcat, PlayerOa, kamepfer13
I don't know how much I can stress that he wanted to try and 'flip a wagon' onto ian when there were 2 minutes left in the voting timer. He posted after link had forced a nl and chose not to break the tie, which he counters by saying that he was going to in the very short amount of time left. I can't trust that.
Wagonomics strongly suggest DC town. He was topwagon very frequently (competing with various different wagons) and the vote that decided he lives another day was torb, who i tr and who also had voted him with intend to kill afaik before, so doesnt look like any effort went into saving him.
To a lesser extend, I tr w3 for the same reason I tr timpa last game (that was wrong though, so maybe i shouldnt tr people for this anymore) as after he stopped memevoting dc he actually defended dc as early as when he was the competing topwagon.
this looking at DC being scum is not very sound reasoning. the effort that went into saving him was you not hammering on him or shock.
ian vote was a pressure vote aka "do sth", moe i believed slipped, though I've recovered from that and rob i legitimately scumread to this day (and i stayed on ian when he became a legitimate wagon because shocks eod was towny and he was less usefull than either w3 and dc who i oth had no nonneutral read on), so my votes were not at all because I didnt know what to do with it.
your vote on ian was a pressure vote even though you voted on him with 3 or so minutes left on the EoD extension timer?
@kae I feel dumb now, but it's good to know there was a reason behind your votes.
this interaction in passing
dumb read: if timpa is scum he didnt discuss roles of people with his scummates at all. (so basically this dumb read equates to a tr or scum doesnt give a fuck this game)
a weird semi-bus or trying to distance self.
yh I've read every post of link twice now and find zero reference to what I can find in the honkai wiki about theresa, the claims are all not serious aside from "ccing" moe, but none of dc,oa,moe has shared a role that link could confirm, so this was talking about durandal
I'll admit i missed it the first time around, but if you read Link's post twice again and didn't see his soft unconfirm of moe, but were so caught up on moe's perceived slip, that seems concerning to me.
DC is actually my biggest townread according to wagonomics. Unless you believe scum tried raising various different cws until sth sticks absolutely no effort went into saving DC.
again, you saved dc and forced TorB to either nl or lynch shock.
Tbh, i dont really see why Cecilia finishing dawn off is particularly scummy. I mean it does go against the consensus of vocal players, but very publicly so; similiar to how shock did, i dont exactly condon going against the grain without even speaking up about it, but as scum!cecilia you are just painting a target on your back. In fact as scum!Cecilia its best to mark many different people, denying us the flip and then finish them off one after the other, ending the game early.
you townread my cecilia vig on dawn here but are now using it as one of the main bases of your arguments, saying i'm the lest mechanically towny here.
yes, if coffee lives we can force ian to kill someone in addition to coffees kil (and coffee not using your ability after already outing is beyond dumb, as the first half has literally no drawback)
it actually would be beyond dumb at that point in time if you thought i could be mafia, as if i had used it multiple times (every night) the game would be over if i had maf majority with yesterday's lynching of sub. however, i'm wondering if you weren't concerned with that possibility as you already knew my alignment?
Cecilia+Kallan:
I decided that there isnt that big a rush to confirm ian, so he should use his ability on 2 people other than himself tonight. and get confirmed n4 at the earliest I guess (unless someone actually does die to it). This way he doesnt have to holster and has a small chance to confirm himself without outside help (obv he has to choose targets in secret, otherwise mafia just nks someone else).
Cecilia should definitely target someone to confirm/deny coffee. If raiden really wants to kill someone that was previously targeted, we have confirmed mafia interference.
Coffee, if you dont want to take responsibility for the likely missvig (remember you dont even have to finish them off), you can hold an unofficial lynchvote. Just make the deadline for it before nightdeadline, otherwise you cant submit it.
this is just you asking for more people to have the capacity to die. there's a little bit of a townread in that you wanted ian to use it (even though it was on cd) and you know he would be able to hit one of the maf, but otherwise this looks to me like 'more death=more win'
def use it; if you're gonna decide yourself anyway dont telegraph it beforehand, if you want to target a consensus target... well its kinda late for that, but say so asap
directly conflicts with the general interest of the town as voiced at that point. also, there were like 8 hours left before deadline, not too late for a consensus target, and this reads to me like you didn't want the target to land on one of your team.
for the 100th time that specific scenario instantly outs a scumrole so while there is a high chance the rolesearcher is town and alive that just wont happen
i think you're closer to the 2nd or maybe 3rd time
but valid point. any suggestions for targets? i might just go on dc or cal
I prefer cal out of those for obv reasons
again defending or steering the target away from his partner like i mentioned earlier.
I probably want my vote on someone that never had to feel threatened by the lynch except TorB and kdz. Considering my theory that all wagons so far were town, thats were the scum would have to be. Although the people coming to mind there are timpa and calindu, who i dont have particularly good reason to scumread outside that. And chances are that noone would hop on anyway, since people tend to hold onto old grudges here.
giving a non-commital slight townread to andre here
Oh missed w3s post.
I am Frederica Tesla.
Shock didnt have a honkai core and i was really pissed he significantly decreased the effectiveness of my ability.
Anyway 7 abilities other than my own were used n1.
Now the important part: N2 i targeted sub, kdz, coffee, mw, ian and cal n2. Only a single ability was used, coffees. However if andre and dc are truthfull I should have witnessed torb use an ability as well
this is where kae can use his ability to hide his core usage. notice how his ability usage does not include DC or andre, even though DC was scumread by many people by that point.
Btw, dc actually said that rate up was a lie, claiming that he didnt get any of the roles his friend suggested, though he did. Perhaps he wanted to disguise as real raiden from the start.+ I too thought that seele clarification came a bit early, making it seem planned. So yh I think both are wolves. Sorry I defended dc for so long.
this is backpedaling after DC was going to be one of the next lynches.
DoubleCapitals (4) - iancudorinmarian, andretimpa, TheonlyrealBeef, kaempfer13
welp i did promise I would vote the one to post targets later (or not at all? please dont be like that). I see several questionable things from andre today as well though. he's in thunderdome with both dc and coffee simultaneously (unless coffee did use ability and was redirected by dc (wait for dc to claim before you say anything)), so even if we assume that both thunderdomes are v/w he's still likely scum.
this is just bussing again when we know that both of them are going to be lynched.
DoubleCapitals (4) - iancudorinmarian, andretimpa, TheonlyrealBeef, Submachine
andretimpa (5) - worldwideweb3, DoubleCapitals, rob77dp, Calindu, kaempfer13
be it because dc is town or has the honkai core thats worse, i prefer this lynch.
was the straw that pushed us to kill the person with core of binding. it didn't do much iirc, but still of note.
May dc never miss another eod. Unless its w3 or dc is innocent I think the game is pretty much mechanically solved now.
and here we are, where it's not mechanically solved.
As I said, the game took a set course as soon as we all agreed to follow TorB's plan. As last game showed, being aware of someone possibly being the mafia achieves nothing if we do not vote on them. We should make a concensus whether we suspect Kae or TorB to be mafia (strongly enough that we actually vote on them!), and if not, put them off the table. I think if we have a deep wolf, it is Kae and not TorB. TorB did too many things, but I can't remember if Kae actually helped find a mafia, or he doubled down on a mafia that TorB found without him. I want an answer to this too from people who have good memory of this, then I will make a final decision whether I will consider voting Kae or not - if I even live for the next day.
did kdz actually claim? i mean its obvious,but for some reason he wanted to keep it close to his chest
fishing for his role right before he was nightkilled; he died that night.
Tbh, I'm not sure whether you flipping town would actually make me reconsider my poe. Probably not (well, obv it wouldnt be you, but i would probably just continue with the least towny remaining person, w3 before coffee and everyone else is essentially confirmed town to me assuming the plan goes through). If I seem phoned in, its because so long as town doesnt do anything silly and there is no actual case on me other than " if it aint anyone else ot has be you duh" i think this is guaranteed to result in a town victory, so thats why im not really trying very hard anymore.
and this leads me to the end of my post; here, he's basically saying "i don't want to put in effort to solve as i think this is a free win for me." he assumed that everyone else alive universally scumread me more than him and so that was him coasting for the rest of the game.
as for lessening the game time, i obviously wouldn't want to do so if it lands on me but i assume that kae will lessen in an effort to try to get me lynched faster. i will not vote for the detraction of time as i don't want 14 people pissed at me for not trying harder.
throughout the game, kae has tried solving and all of his reads that were on his own volition were incorrect, along with saving dc multiple times and bussing when the maf were essentially already found. you say that he tried to solve more than me, but if your idea of solving is that he outed more reads, does that clear him more than me? with his ability, he could have purposefully omitted usages and hidden his core usages with core of reason. i assume that he just got multiple unlucky hits with it if that's what happened, as there is no correlation past the first nightkill with positive and important targets getting killed based off of nothing.
Poll
