Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword

[moehrpi]

I agree with the observation but not the conclusion.

[Linkcat]

What's the reason then?

[MasterWalks]

Been thinking the same thing.

He might have important role and therefore trying to look important and knowledgeable.

Or hes maf

[dawn to dusk]

...Or he just wants to take a more active role this game. There's nothing inherently scummy with trying to produce high content posts

[moehrpi]

I'd most like to attribute it to growing experience. I really only played two mafia here and and more specifically was confirmed town for the most part in the second one. But before being outed I could communicate freely with serp. This led to me not having to be as cautious as I had been before. However, when posting publicly I still want to come off as conscientious and put a lot of thought into how I express myself.
I guess I also am in a better place personally but that's a weird thing to claim here.
Being townread (across games) is also something that helps. This is especially nice to read:

Is it just me or is moe way more confident this game

I don't think of myself being or coming off as knowledgeable but the one thing I was hesitant about revealing is anything related to my role. But I guess if it is so apparent I need to make a further convincing argument. This is the first game where my role allows me to gather at least some information and not being completely dependent on public information. It's kind of nice to be able to do something.

I also don't think of myself producing high content posts. Of course I try to add something to the discussion but I don't add info but mainly try not to appear scummy.


My 'I agree with the observation but not the conclusion.' was the ballsiest comment I could come up with that I felt was suitable and prove itself. It was rather foreseeable that it would not be enough to let me off the hook and let me keep any information regarding my role private. I still hoped it would...

[worldwideweb3]

Been thinking the same thing.

He might have important role and therefore trying to look important and knowledgeable.

Or hes maf

you did not respond in the same manner when a sus on coffee was raised due to a similar reason though 

[Coffeeditto]

MW and I are maf partners 

[Coffeeditto]

Is it just me or is moe way more confident this game than any other he's played in? Almost like a different person. I think this is the result of him rolling mafia for the first time and finally not being in the dark.

I'd assume that a town who rolls their first mafia game would want to emulate their previous towny play or act less confident, not more confident. He's mantained this after being slightly scumread IIRC and a mafia would probably back off at that point. I'm not sure, though.

robs progression on coffee just doesnt make sense. First he scumreads him for activity (which is the opposite of basic logic and the phantom memory he had has no grounds in reality, which may or may not mean that its completely made up), then townreads him for it when his memory was jogged (as he puts him in townleans with no other reason given than his initial read being wrong and coffee-activity=good), then claims activity is not a tell for coffee at all, but then keeps his townread on him anyway, while buddying him.

Yes, i still havent gotten over this.

Other rob related things: - his mechanics-talk is fine (pretty good) really, but in case of rob i wouldnt expect anything else really.
as he noted himself, his readlist developed to fit the wagons that were forming. it is indeed too consensy and him wanting to vote with certain other people (oa) further drives this home, passing responsibility for a misslynch to someone else.

I think he didn't scumread me for my activity, and instead wanted to note it as he has only played with less active me. A lot of people have mentioned how it's just a different thing, not a scummy thing. I still believe using meta from previous games is lame, but that's just me. His reads based on activity are not related to his reads based on the content of my post, and he can think one is scummy and the other is towny. I don't see this as a maf rob buddying with me. As far as voting with oa, if his reads aligned with oa's i don't see rob using this as an excuse to pass on blame. He expressed his distate with a shock lynch and his vote reflected that.

[rob77dp]

Um, kae I do not recall ever visiting that link before... so if you shared it last game I ignored it (sorry if so, given you recall I asked for it... don't remember doing that though myself).

Also, the game that actually completed you got vigi shot by town-vig as scum... while being scum-read based on you behaving differently that you had in viewable town games. Which is basically wha tI"m doing here. So the way I see it I have a scum-lean on you this game for something that you were scum-read for in a prior game where you were scum.

What am I missing though? Because I read your post as being so self-assured that you sharing your scum game here would help me want to question a scum-read of you this game... but it doesn't??

Spoiler for Hidden:

robs progression on coffee just doesnt make sense. First he scumreads him for activity (which is the opposite of basic logic and the phantom memory he had has no grounds in reality, which may or may not mean that its completely made up), then townreads him for it when his memory was jogged (as he puts him in townleans with no other reason given than his initial read being wrong and coffee-activity=good), then claims activity is not a tell for coffee at all, but then keeps his townread on him anyway, while buddying him.

Yes, i still havent gotten over this.

Other rob related things: - his mechanics-talk is fine (pretty good) really, but in case of rob i wouldnt expect anything else really.
as he noted himself, his readlist developed to fit the wagons that were forming. it is indeed too consensy and him wanting to vote with certain other people (oa) further drives this home, passing responsibility for a misslynch to someone else.

My progression is fine. While it may be 'flawed' as in I don't have the answers at the start, but you are somewhat mischaracterizing it. I scumread him suddenly being active and different in a major way from last game wehre he was town (as in, he posted stuff this game... so I thought a variation in playstyle was something to scumlean THAT EARLY IN THE GAME when info is scarce) - and it was based on a faulty memory I had. Yes I corrected and adjusted my read when proper context and history was shown to me. I try to avoid activity tells on ANYONE when there is not a clear and hardline set of evicence to support it which does not exist for coffee - so yeah I rescinded any sort of postcount tell/read on coffee. I am not buddying him - I am finding that I have several times thought very similarly to him while trying to find some to work with a bit that I townread. It isn't foundless and I don't consider it buddying.

The fact that I was willing to try to get reads going so early is towny. The fact I was willing to adjust based on presented evidence and rescinde a scumlean based on facts is towny. Is it WIFOM for me to point this out? Sure, but sheesh kae that's a pretty poor set of reasoning as I see it.

I hate mechanics talk - but in a game so HEAVILY reliant on understanding and discussing roles like this one is I find myself somewhat forced into discussing mechanics. FYI - mafia tend to love discussing mechanics.

My readlist was developing BEFORE they were all wagons - I simply realized it was aligning and thought it was very unlikely I would have them all pegged rightly and that the thread would too - so I commented on it.

I didn't pass any responsibility and it is weird you characterize my voting scumreads of mine as "misslynch" responsibility passing - I see them as good lynches and only once a player flips is it even possible for me to know if right or not.


Kae - your attempt to scumread me is as shaky as I've commented before about some of your reads. I think I asked this before / last game --- do you have a scum-game example to link us to for background / meta? You seem different than last game --- you have a ton of reads that strike me as faked, poor, or misguided in ways that feel forced which I do not remember getting sense of from you at all last game when you were town. I want to try to compare a most recent scum game of yours to last game (you were town) with this game so far. Please / thanks.

I already posted my only scumgame in the previous game. Kinda dissapointed you didnt even register that even though you already asked for it last time I thought. I suppose that doesnt matter for this game though.
Link: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/24094-Poisonous-Vigilantes-Re-Rand

Bonus: in the initial round I was town and another asshat scumread me for the exact same reason you did now.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/24079-Poisonous-Vigilantes-21er?p=3566885#post3566885

The lower effort version would have been to just not mention the people i arrived at n on anyway and you wouldnt have perceived it as odd at all, yet i shared why i arrived at ultimately not having strong feelings.



This post is also scumpinging me (sort of appeasy/defensive, also the attempt to get reads wasnt scummy, the resulting reads were), but I suppose I'm deep enough in the tunnel that i would scumread you for donating to charity (distracting from the relevant topic, maybe fighting a bad conscience).

[rob77dp]

Oa-

I get a weird feeling about your reads list... it omits the 4th through 8th (you're 9th and from there the cutline gets murkier) highest posters but you included a slight town lean (n+) on a 10-post player and a slight scum lean (n-) on a 14 poster, 17 poster, and 19 poster. I'm curious what background you can give as to this aspect of your list?

Also, your heavier town leans (v) are very brief and blaise thoughts when you then have more in-depth things about lower-post count and content players that get n-/+ treatment then dumping "the rest" as n (do you mean null or neutral)?

I had such a strong townread on you I guess based mostly on the Durandal moderator SOD 1 statement to which no Durandal has claimed to have seen "red" on you. I'm a bit shaky on that townread now, but it seems so unlikely you aren't town given that Durandal pinged you without reporting... which could mean you are scum ONLY if Durandal is playing a dangerous (or poor, depends on perspective) game OR if Durandal is scum. I'll be frank --- given the amoutn of in-thread discussion where I think the general consensus is for Durandal to out any scum hits that the most likely of the scenarios where Oa is scum is scum Durandal. Which worries me a fair bit.

All this said, it is still much more likely Durandal is town and so is Oa -- however from the read of Oa's list (as I outlined above) I'm softening my townread of Oa quite a bit.

INPUT PLEASE ON THIS --> Does it seem likely, as I believe it is, that a scum!Durandal would ping a teammate N0 to try to cover a teammate for a while? Perhaps even - as Oa (the N0 Durandal result) has done - request doctor attending next night to sus out the doc role?? Thinking that made more sense than once I've typed it out though...... 

v
kaempfer - seems genuinely interested in solving
TorB - a lot of his thoughts allocate with mine

n+
dawn - going out early on calling out Cecilia gives slight town cred in my book. I believe his claim on not being Bronya, but if he turns out to be, it's looking real bad for him
moe - hard buddying me, which isn't even slightly controversial, but his posts seem genuine to me. Explains his MW vote on his trust on me, fair enough.
w3 - just like moe, he's playing exactly the way I'd expect town w3 to play. I'm not implying it's a difficult task, since it's not, but his play makes sense

n-
MW - I like they way he responded on the pressure, but I'm not convinced yet. Being on shock
Naii - getting weird vibes, although his confusion is likely legit, as I've felt just the way he has on earlier occasions. I don't like his reasoning on voting MW, although it might sound hypocrital as 1) I was on MW and 2) MW is a mere n- for me
ian - kinda had to stay at a pile bigger than his, so can't blame him on staying on shock, but the timing of his vote is not looking good to me. The post about "don't kill me as I'm OP in the endgame" without any more substance (he said it was a mashup of many factors) is kinda throwing me off.

The rest are standing at n. For now.

Piling up on shockcannon just because sHoCk Is ShOcK is a scummy move in my book and it's definitely influencing my readlist.

[rob77dp]

Squeezing in a reads list update here too:

vv
moe

v
coffee
TorB

n+
Oa
Sub
kdz

n
Cal
ian
Link

n-
timpa
MW
d2d

w
kae
DC
www3

[TheonlyrealBeef]

As a maf Durandal, it seems much safer to target town N0. This will make it much more likely to gain you town support by the time you claim, rather than having to out and rely on mafia buddies to save your hide. N4 seems like the most sensible night to try a fake mafia is town target to claim, by then maf Durandal can keep its credit long enough to win mafia the game on mislynches. If they live long enough to get to N6 without scum winning the game, they might even pull a town is maf fake claim target.

Durandal being mafia is not very likely (3/17), but you never know. More importantly: if neither Oa nor Durandal are NK-ed for a few nights in a row, it may be worth it for town to start growing suspicious of Durandal. But it just feels too early right now.