Poll

Please check all hours that would work for you as the deadline for each phase.

0 GMT
8 (5.7%)
1 GMT
7 (5%)
2 GMT
7 (5%)
3 GMT
7 (5%)
4 GMT
7 (5%)
5 GMT
4 (2.8%)
6 GMT
4 (2.8%)
7 GMT
4 (2.8%)
8 GMT
4 (2.8%)
9 GMT
5 (3.5%)
10 GMT
5 (3.5%)
11 GMT
4 (2.8%)
12 GMT
3 (2.1%)
13 GMT
2 (1.4%)
14 GMT
3 (2.1%)
15 GMT
4 (2.8%)
16 GMT
3 (2.1%)
17 GMT
5 (3.5%)
18 GMT
9 (6.4%)
19 GMT
9 (6.4%)
20 GMT
11 (7.8%)
21 GMT
9 (6.4%)
22 GMT
9 (6.4%)
23 GMT
8 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: August 09, 2020, 10:29:25 pm

Poll

What kind of setup do you want to see next?

Run the standard setup with minor adjustments.
7 (26.9%)
Run a closed setup designed by Linkcat.
8 (30.8%)
Run a game with all Fate Eggs.
7 (26.9%)
Run an even sillier game just to mess around.
4 (15.4%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closed: August 09, 2020, 10:47:45 pm

Poll

What to do about Who's Online?

Allow free use of it.
9 (52.9%)
Ban use of it during the last couple hours of each phase.
3 (17.6%)
Ban use of it completely.
5 (29.4%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 09, 2020, 11:26:23 pm

Poll

Who played the best mafia?

Linkcat
1 (2.5%)
TheonlyrealBeef
16 (40%)
shockcannon
0 (0%)
PlayerOa
1 (2.5%)
iancudorinmarian
0 (0%)
worldwideweb3
1 (2.5%)
MasterWalks
0 (0%)
andretimpa
0 (0%)
dawn_to_dusk
0 (0%)
kaempfer13
6 (15%)
Submachine
0 (0%)
killsdazombies
0 (0%)
Coffeeditto
7 (17.5%)
rob77dp
3 (7.5%)
DoubleCapitals
1 (2.5%)
Calindu
0 (0%)
Naii_the_Baf
0 (0%)
moehrpi13
4 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: August 09, 2020, 10:51:45 pm

*Author

Offline moehrpi

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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299905#msg1299905
« Reply #360 on: July 10, 2020, 12:14:24 pm »
That mafia plan is way to intricate to commit that many resources into it.

FWIW, mafia would use Rita N1 to find cop. kae did not mention being blocked, too.

I'd totally 1 for 1 Durandal for a mafia member though, why would mafia want to make that trade?

They would not necessarily trade because Break of Dawn is most likely on cooldown. Rita failing her ability N1 gives a decent shot at Durandal.

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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299906#msg1299906
« Reply #361 on: July 10, 2020, 12:15:48 pm »
Kae was being real silly about moe but I think it makes him towny.

While it's tempting to lynch w3 D1 after he died N0 last game, I'm going to need to see more before I go down that route.

Cal lynch is silly, don't want to lynch dawn since he's half dead already, would rather lynch MW.

No Lynch is only a good idea when it's very unlikely that any top wagon is town and there's not enough time to find a new target. This happened I believe in both 68 and 72. However, in this game even in such a scenario we can just lynch shock which is a +EV play.
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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299907#msg1299907
« Reply #362 on: July 10, 2020, 12:17:34 pm »
Kae was being real silly about moe but I think it makes him towny.

While it's tempting to lynch w3 D1 after he died N0 last game, I'm going to need to see more before I go down that route.

Cal lynch is silly, don't want to lynch dawn since he's half dead already, would rather lynch MW.

No Lynch is only a good idea when it's very unlikely that any top wagon is town and there's not enough time to find a new target. This happened I believe in both 68 and 72. However, in this game even in such a scenario we can just lynch shock which is a +EV play.

you mean mafia, or very likely, not unlikely
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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299908#msg1299908
« Reply #363 on: July 10, 2020, 12:18:00 pm »
//thats a slipup! links a mafia
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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299909#msg1299909
« Reply #364 on: July 10, 2020, 12:20:56 pm »
This is the part where we wait for Cal and MW to show up and try to cover their asses. If you're 'those players who could gain real, helpful information' then you haven't done your job by getting voted up this early, whether by saying something dumb, being awol enough to be considered lhf, etc. I think someone already mirrored this sentiment, and I'll go dig this up.

Look at w3, taking shit from Oa, ian and Beef. Substantiated by a real risk of the lynch he has to speak up and defend himself, think that'll happen on NL?

Rob said it earlier too

Spoiler for Hidden:
(snip)
3.) putting someone up for lynch could force a role claim. What if the cop is the one with the most votes towards the end of day and has to reveal now? Then the cop should gett gud and do things that convince people not to vote them and to instead vote someone scummy. Also, you seem to be forgetting that the cop roles this setup could also be scum-sided or not present (obviously Durandal is present given the Oa announcement at start of Day).
3.) keeping more targets alive gives more cover for the useful roles to get the information they need before dying So you are suggesting to just sit pat and try to have nobody die while town uses roles to find all the scum and win 15-0? I just cannot agree that No Lynch is viable/right strategy here.
(snip)

Look at w3, taking shit from Oa, ian and Beef. Substantiated by a real risk of the lynch he has to speak up and defend himself, think that'll happen on NL?
I dont understand what conclusion you want us to derive from that.
The morale I get from that sentence is that a No Lynch does not drive people to defend themselves. Is that not correct?
(snip)

More or less, votes speak. Maybe I'm being influenced by elections tonight I'm sorry

That mafia plan is way to intricate to commit that many resources into it.

FWIW, mafia would use Rita N1 to find cop. kae did not mention being blocked, too.

I'd totally 1 for 1 Durandal for a mafia member though, why would mafia want to make that trade?

They would not necessarily trade because Break of Dawn is most likely on cooldown. Rita failing her ability N1 gives a decent shot at Durandal.

Oh right, Rita can't force a ability if it's on CD right?
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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299910#msg1299910
« Reply #365 on: July 10, 2020, 12:26:02 pm »
Oh right, Rita can't force a ability if it's on CD right?
Right.
You could still draw a kill role to yourself or an info role (though NAI, I guess, unless Theresa), while not drawing any ability is true for enough abilities to not be substantial evidence, so I think Rita N1 is not particularly good as scum. Better than N0, I suppose.

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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299911#msg1299911
« Reply #366 on: July 10, 2020, 12:32:49 pm »
There is only one logical scenario where I can imagine www doing this as town, but this is not the way to do it, and he should rather take inspiration from shockcannon in that case.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but it does not make sense for www to do what he does in the one scenario I'm thinking about... This scenario is having a power role he wants to save by not getting nightkilled, which he wants to achieve by looking slightly scummy. But if this is the case, then he is doing it horribly and it's only his fault if he gets lynched for it.

So yeah, put my vote on www.
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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299912#msg1299912
« Reply #367 on: July 10, 2020, 12:36:39 pm »
So yeah, put my vote on www.

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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299913#msg1299913
« Reply #368 on: July 10, 2020, 12:45:14 pm »
Finally people are realizing that www has been playing scummy so far. There is only one logical scenario where I can imagine www doing this as town, but this is not the way to do it, and he should rather take inspiration from shockcannon in that case.

im not sure what part is scummy. saying i agree with no vote, in certain instances? As mafia, i would go along with lynching is good and put a vote on so many options that are already present rather than bring upon attention :facepalm:
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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299914#msg1299914
« Reply #369 on: July 10, 2020, 12:49:52 pm »
I grossly overestimated how much time I would have available to play this game. I will either be absent at EOD (boooo >:( ) or phone/mobile posting only (also boooo). C'est la vie.

I presume a town-sided Durandal would claim red peek on Oa by now. If the Durandal was active enough to pick a target then I strongly presume they would out if Oa were scum. If Durandal was redirected off of Oa then well we have some thinking cut out for ourselves at some point as cop would not really be proper to out that now - but it would mean that it is likely scum has redirect role and that Oa is a separate scum, only likely though not guaranteed.
--> It is likely Oa is town - if Durandal is scum, or if Oa was a redirect and not Durandal's real target then it gets murky regarding Oa.

kae/moe unlikely w/w could be t/t. It seems odd that at the end of it, kae was taking moe as somehow being serious about any kind of comment implying any sort of roll is accurate or inaccurate. Like nobody outs themselves like that in my opinion. As I ponder it kae actually thinking that makes little sense because experience tells he is more keen than that but kae faking that reaction also makes little sense UNLESS he is scum and latching on to that "out" was a thought that others would buy into it? Again though little sense because surely kae knows moe was not being serious on that part and would know almost nobody would think that was an 'out' and join his push on moe? I guess for me moe seems fine in that event/interaction and kae is ?wtf? for me (slightly more scum than town lean though as I think town kae knows that isn't an out and sees no benefit in trying to push it as one; scum!kae just _might_ could be searching hard enough for something to push someone on that he was caught up enough to think others would believe moe was lynchable on that post -- scum!kae = town!moe; town!kae = ??town!moe?).

shock is now making some shock posts. Again having no past scum!shock basis to judge against we're left guessing at the scum-end of the play scale for shock. No Lynch in this case I believe is bad play bad idea. Not exactly scummy the way shock brings it up - nobody was on the No Lynch topic until shock brought it up right? I think... I'm unsure if shock is Rita or not-Rita but I have a hunch one certain way that I'll keep private _for now_. I lean a bit town on shock at the moment - I still think a scum!shock is going to be "less shock-like" and so far it is a thumbprint match to what I saw of him last game and heard of him about previous games.

Coffee shade earlier was based on a very old (thanks Link for pointing out JUST how old!!) recollection that was foggy at best, as I stated already when I brought it up. If I actually thought coffee had a true activity tell and that this was indicative only of a scum!coffee then I would have pushed it much harder than I did. I didn't even vote him on it (was it night still at the time and I couldn't vote? if it was I would have said I'd vote him but can't instead I just didn't vote nor mention wanting to vote him). The 49 game never actually finished so perhaps I was simply confused by a lean I had that was never resolved. IN any case I'd like to rest the coffee activity thing because active coffee is good for the game (active anyone is good for the game) and I do NOT believe it is any kind of 'tell' for him.

whoever said it resonated with me ---- www3 doing a lot of posting/defending in a way that seems only about saving himself not solving around on others. That is a scummy thing generally. However, I wouldn't put it past a town!www3 to be doing it just like this. Also in reading back some of his posts to find why he is sitting on DC (hint: he stated RNG ??) I found a post with www3 asking medic to protect him - either more www3 low-content posting or a serious post that only serves to unnecessarily endanger him if he is town and appear as role-fishing if he is scum. A tip - you don't seem like a very likely NK candidate at this point...... a very slight scum lean from www3 so far, but maybe that's his plan?

Link has been oddly somewhat awol - but truly NAI stuff from him so far (that is, I believe he is easily well-well-well within his scum or town 'range' -- shock, if you hate feel/gut reads, reads in general, lynching people, and other general aspects of regular mafia gameplay I'm surprised you haven't latched onto the "range" principle several of us have used in recent games...).

dawn still being very very low post and basically low-content due to such VERY few posts. While in a vacuum that isn't exactly scummy, recent games I have played on here the low posters has almost always had a scum in it (Ge0 and timpa last game, both of which I sus'd early but nobody wanted to join me). The idea some are floating that lynching low posters is just always bad and never do it is not a good plan. Especially considering around here the prevailing opinion is NOT to shoot vig roles into inactive crowd during mid-game. Put those two together and wtf would scum not want to sit among low posters as long as possible? Get in gear and start posting things - at least something. If you have to low post then please high-content post but if you can a moderate-to-higher volume AND content is even better.

MW - maybe his RL is different and a fwe days is a small sample size, but his activity seems not only lower but different than last game... he was more like a butterfly last game flitting here and there sometimes appearing no purpose to it or confusing purpose and other times displaying intent to solve/investigate/kill-scum/etc --- whereas this game very few "flits" and just a very different MW vibe. Not exactly scummy at this point, but it does get some scum-lean from me.

Surely I have overlooked some aspects of the thread flow so far and players with something to be said about them... but I just don't have time to get too far into it on EVERYONE at this stage. A traveshamockery of my usual style of play. I do not apologize.

Town leans - Oa, moe, shock, coffee // TorB, Naii
Neutral territory - Link // ian, timpa, Sub, kdz, DC
Scum angled - kae, www3, d2d, MW

at this point I haven't been able to flesh enough out to try to give honest vv v n+ n n- w ww categorizing yet... and the order above is the order I found to talk about them farther above. I still find d2d a viable wagon and lynch option today. He still has votes (wagon) but not much traction (current ebb is toward www3 vs MW). I have a scum lean on all three (scummy coincidence? or just par for those three having generally had the most non-town/scummy play so far? you decide). I think it is time to start truly building legit lynch candidate wagons.

dawn to dusk (1) - killsdazombies
shockcannon (1) - Linkcat
DoubleCapitals (2) - worldwideweb3, Calindu
kaempfer13 (1) - MasterWalks
No Lynch (1) - shockcannon
MasterWalks (4) - PlayerOa, DoubleCapitals, moehrpi, rob77dp
worldwideweb3 (3) - iancudorinmarian, TheonlyrealBeef, Submachine
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Offline rob77dp

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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299915#msg1299915
« Reply #370 on: July 10, 2020, 12:51:57 pm »
Also, I believe at least several players get anxiety over the idea of late game-day antics, movement, and investigating-by-creating-vote-chocie-and-wagon-information activity... I was a common instigator of such last game and I thought it was useful and still think it is. I approve of it. I just won't be able to do it much if at all this day from a phone at EOD. Don't hate/love me for it. If others can do it for value/info then have at!

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Re: Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67869.msg1299916#msg1299916
« Reply #371 on: July 10, 2020, 01:03:03 pm »
Town leans - Oa, moe, shock, coffee // TorB, Naii
Neutral territory - Link // ian, timpa, Sub, kdz, DC
Scum angled - kae, www3, d2d, MW

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