Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Theresa is much more useful late game and much less likely to be able to identify mafia Day1, even if one was targeted by them N0. No need to consider Theresa for the purpose of medic target N0, as in they are unlikely to be in need of protection N1 due to public Theresa claim to out mafia.

[rob77dp]

Cop type roles should "ABC"... Always Be Checking. It any sure red peeks (which in this setup is a bit murky as no 'true' cop role exists...). I've yet to see a convincing argument for a cop role to holster this game...?

Doc should probably decide themselves who to target. Following a thread consensus likely opens up a chance for scum to doc-hunt (corollary to not wanting a cop to check a thread agreed target?), even a self target consensus if followed.

It is possible, albeit unlikely, that we have NEITHER town doc nor town cop and less likely but still possible neither in the game at all.

RIPtown in those worlds.

[rob77dp]

EBWOP
*And out any sure red peeks
(Phone posting almost always sucks)

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Speaking of cop and medic: there's also a significant chance that mafia has the core of death. Medic only prevents deaths during the night, while core of death kills the day after. It's one use only and Raiden can still deflect the effect elsewhere. Still, cop seems like the most obvious target for it.

I agree with rob on doc targets, merely wanted to point out that there are no huge reasons not to use it on whomever you feel like.

[DoubleCapitals]

dumb idea I remembered from Town of Salem
Raiden can protect away cop-type roles from the nightkill if they are forced to claim

congrats ian, you're useful now

[rob77dp]

So a town Raiden Mei can add another layer of decision for scum to weigh by possibly (or not!) targeting a claimed red peek and the Durandal claimant? Risks seem to be that a scum Raiden Mei would create a disastrous first round of any such attempt...? This cop-role-but-cannot-lynch-next is really a pain to try to work into a more "straight" cop sort of functionality.

Also, wonder if anyone tries to go full-Rob and shoot into the completely-inactive-0-posting-n0 group? 

[Linkcat]

Unfortunately I managed to not roll one of the 80 vig roles so someone else will have to shoot shock.

[Naii_the_Baf]

Comments in yellow.

It's time to start highlighting some important roles and group the other roles by category as well as suggest their intended usage. Deviating from this intended usage will likely be perceived as scummy, so speak up if you disagree instead of simply ignoring my advice.

Cop: Durandal
Medic: Fu Hua

Cop targets are publicly notified the day after and they cannot be lynchvoted that day. My suggestion is to hard-claim when finding a mafia, say nothing when finding town. Town targeted by cop is more likely to be nightkilled due to notification.
Emma Planck should target Cop N0, Medic N2 (if still alive). Fake cop claims should be denied by Emma Planck, not the actual cop.
Maf could simply out Emma Planck at the cost of one of their members just by faking a cop claim; they only need to wait until the notification appears (which will likely happen D1). I'd rather keep a town Emma Planck around for a while longer. An outed Emma should be targeted by doc, although Chain Lightning poses a huge problem if it exists. A way to counter it is to have many people targeting Emma, but that could potentially out offensive town roles.

If you have been targeted by Cecilia Shariac, make sure to publicly reveal this, but keep the identity of the person with this role a secret until someone town dies from that role. Verify or deny claims made for that role if someone claims.
All false claims should lead to getting lynched, this way, Theresa Apocalypse can identify mafia that make true role claims if their Honkai Core's ability type differs from their original role ability. Roles are also unique, so if someone claims to be your role, they are lying.

Now for the rest of the roles, note that offensive roles should not be used lightly, especially N0.

Spoiler for Kiana Kaslana(offensive):

Not sure how using this ability is not scummy.

Spoiler for Raiden Mei(defensive):

Extremely powerful for scum, but situational for town. Can be used to protect power roles, alternate with medic for best effect.

A town Raiden Mei would have to know who is medic for this, though. Not sure if it's a good idea to use this ability now if town, but it'll be useful later on when we have more information about roles.

Spoiler for Bronya Zaychik(passive):

Useful for scum to tip the voting scales in their favor. People should lynch vote every day, even with this role.

A maf that pretends to be inactive with this role may be going for this. This is another reason why Cecilia should target inactives; this role's usage is more scum than not, so if anyone detects abnormalities, Cecilia will be able to narrow down the targets if they want to hunt Bronya.

Spoiler for Himeko Murata(offensive):

Coordinate with info roles to kill people.

Spoiler for Yae Sakura(defensive):

Seems like an overpowered scum ability to protect their entire team from cop. Please do not use this ability.

Anyone whose ability fails should say so.

Spoiler for Theresa Apocalypse(informative):

Allows you to verify if the player's role claim matches their ability type. If not, claim and lynch.

Should be able to get some maf out if they claim truthfully, but they could very well coordinate to play pretend─ that is, a maf claims another maf's ability that DOES match. Roleclaims should be checked anyway; an outed false roleclaim with a Cecilia claim will probably out several mafia.

Spoiler for Kallen Kaslana(offensive):

Allows scum to take a town down with them, not sure what the most useful usage for town is. Best to just leave the ability be or try to drag down someone scummy with a likely NK target.

Spoiler for Rita Rossweisse(defensive):

With how many offensive abilities there are, this practically feels like suicide to use at random. Using this on other defensive roles or cop (why???) should be perceived as scummy.

Do not use this ability. It's a bad meatshield.

Spoiler for Lilya Olenyeva(defensive):

If everyone suddenly wants you dead on a night, this will eliminate them all. Veruy useful if you will be the next nightkill target.

Spoiler for Rozaliya Olenyeva(offensive):

Kills, plain and simple.

We get an extra kill from this role if they hit a maf, so if town, they should wait until a maf is confirmed.

Spoiler for Seele Vollerei(passive):

Please do not claim to be the role you received, unless explicitly mentioning this role as well. See received role for suggested usage of that role.

Spoiler for Cecilia Shariac(offensive):

Feel free to target neutral/inactive players once each, since this does not kill them. Targeting mafia as town will make you a very likely NK target, however.

Spoiler for Shigure Kira(informative):

Can likely be used freely. Please do not target power roles to prevent outing them to mafia.

Spoiler for Frederica Tesla(informative):

Can be used freely. Most useful when used on individual players to spy them using 2 abilities during one night (=mafia).

Spoiler for Lieserl Einstein(informative):

Can be used freely.

Spoiler for Emma Planck(informative):

Should be used whenever possible. Identify living power roles to help protect them. Durandal N0, Fu Hua N2.

Spoiler for Cocolia(passive):

No usage.

It basically confirms which roles are in the game. Its use is very limited, but it may help by actually confirming what roles exist instead of leaving us to strategize on roles that may not even be present. Question to Sky: This role reveals ANY player's role, dead or alive, correct? That's how I understood this. Also, can Cocolia receive Cocolia as one of the three roles?

Spoiler for Sin Mal(???):

If you can predict whom gets lynched this ability is extremely useful, but after obtaining new abilities soem informative roles may perceive you as scum. Avoid using two abilities in one night.

We could attempt to coordinate a lynch during the night for this role to work. We may want to protect this target from the NK, since the lynch target being killed during the night would just make this fail rotundly.

There is a lot to add (or modify) to my list of brief suggestions, so I would love to see some discussion on role usage. I wrote this before roles were revealed, so you won't find any soft-claims in this post.

[rob77dp]

Naii - I think a trade of Emma for 1 scum is good positive value for town... You seem to say that is not a good value in your first yellow statements. Can you clarify your thoughts on this?

[rob77dp]

Further background on my thought there-- it is currently 15-3 so trading a non cop non medic (if those are in the game and if those are town) for 1\3 of the scum team sounds great to me.

[Naii_the_Baf]

Naii - I think a trade of Emma for 1 scum is good positive value for town... You seem to say that is not a good value in your first yellow statements. Can you clarify your thoughts on this?

I do admit it's a trade that favors town, however, Emma has a lot of value as an information source. I did mention "for a while longer", in other words, I think this trade should not be performed too early.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Cocalia starts out with this information, when no one is dead yet. Not sure why there is a need for clarification on information received at the start of the game when no one is dead yet. So basically, the roles of three people are known to Cocalia as I understand.