Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword

[kaempfer13]

Rita can force honkai cores to  target her, which has potential especially when tsrgeted by lieserl

[shockcannon]

Spoiler for tonight I upgrade to my final form:

[skyironsword]

A few people have expressed some confusion over what constitutes an ability use.

To use an ability, simply send me a PM. If your targets are valid, your ability is not on cooldown, and you have uses remaining, you will attempt to use that ability. You cannot use the same ability more than once per round (even in the case of #U abilities), but you can use more than one ability on the same night, if you have multiple. Because passives can never be manually activated, they can also never be used (for the purpose of abilities that check whether an ability was activated) and cannot be disabled, except by your death. If you fail to use your ability (most commonly because of Time Fracture or Consecrate Ground), it will be treated as though you simply did not activate your ability. If you send me an invalid command, like targeting yourself with an ability that cannot do so, I will tell you this, but if you do not update your action it will be treated as though you did not activate your ability.

Rose Petals is a special case. If all conditions for Rose Petals are met, and your ability has a lower priority than Rose Petals, you will be compelled to use your abilities on Rita, regardless of any instructions you may have provided. Note that in very rare circumstances, this may cause abilities to fail when they otherwise would not. (For example, if Rita is affected by Consecrate Ground but your original target was not, you will receive the message for being compelled by Rose Petals, as well as the message for your ability failing, and your ability use will be refunded as if you simply did not activate your ability.) Keep in mind that Rose Petals only checks to see if the ability can target one player, not whether it currently is, so it will affect abilities that target "up to three" players, or "any number of players" in the case of Radio Wave.

The rulings section has been updated.

[DoubleCapitals]

Rate up is a lie

* DoubleCapitals hisses

[DoubleCapitals]

I implore you guys to not fucking lie about your role. This setup more so than others I think, it would make our lives easier. I hate that this has to be said.

Again, don't lie. Unless you scum, then do whatever the fuck you want, I don't care.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

For Sin Mal, you can simply target the three players with the lowest post counts at the end of N0 for N0. Unless some interesting information comes up from N0 abilities, they are the ones most likely to get lynched from my point of view. If they do not, well, too bad.

You cannot use the same ability more than once per round (even in the case of #U abilities), but you can use more than one ability on the same night, if you have multiple.

I re-read Sin Mal and you can only target one player at a time, it seems. I still get the "too bad" vibe, though. We do not even know the alignment of Sin Mal, so I see no reason to agree on a lynch beforehand.

Spoiler for Frederica Tesla(informative):

Can be used freely.

the highrolly way to use it would be as you said in the part i accidentally deleted. Well actually the highest roll would be to witness 3 people use 6 abiloties and immediately out the entire scumteam. In praxis its better to start wide, divide and conquer and narrow down over time on the people that seem to use more abilities. Interestingly this will likely  give seele the same ability, allowing you to compare your findings when one claims. A very interesting ability that is its own minigame and probably deserves a whole post dedicated to it.

Scum may intentionally avoid using two abilities in one night for most nights, to prevent revealing themselves to information roles. So just because 3 people use 6 abilities in one night, if you target a group of 6 people with 7 ability uses total (including those 3), finding less than 3 ability uses the next night on a subset of 3 people tells you nothing about those people (positive confirms, negative does not deny).
Instead of writing an entire post about it, I just left a hint at how it can be useful and left it at that. People will use abilities at their own discretion regardless, so I will not bother thinking it out loud. Or even think about it at all if I do not have this role.

Spoiler for Emma Planck(informative):

Should be used whenever possible. Identify living power roles to help protect them. Durandal N0, Fu Hua N2.

not sure how you would protect them other than diverting the lynch, when you cant even know their alignement. This ability is mostly used to catch fake claims.

Well, they are only power roles in hands of town. You cannot know their alignment and you cannot do much to protect them, so just subtle things. Even just not lynchvoting them helps.

Spoiler for Cocolia(passive):

No usage.

Well, technically timing of revealing what youve known from the start is crucial.

I thought about this, but did not think of anything useful to put here and there is no ability use, so no need to discuss whether and how to use it. Catching liars with fake claims can be good.

Spoiler for Sin Mal(???):

If you can predict whom gets lynched this ability is extremely useful, but after obtaining new abilities soem informative roles may perceive you as scum. Avoid using two abilities in one night.

well if you are ever successfull you pretty much have to use 2 abilities to not miss out. 3 uses are enough to last half the game pretty much. We could make a policy to stop using the main ability(or the other one) after obtaining one, but it doesnt seem worth, since sin mal is exceptionally difficult to fakeclaim.

As long as people are being truthful about roles, I guess. Still, even a Sin Mal claim does not mean they are not scum, it just means they could potentially use an additional ability when not scum.

[PlayerOa]

Good morning, gents. Feels good to be back, although I kinda miss being in god mode

After a short scan of TorB's ideas there are no parts I disagree with or stand out as controversial. Also worth mentioning I'm principally against a rushed vig on such a thin basis as we have N0. That is borderline scummy to me. Otherwise, I don't have too much to add at this stage.

[iancudorinmarian]

I have a trash role :cwy:

I have no idea if it's the worst, since I lack the patience to read the wall of text, but it's pretty damn bad.

[Coffeeditto]

i'm writing this here for future reference: if a cc is forced between durandals or other important roles, know what a roleswap is and how to use it if need be. we need to divert attention from the real durandal (if in the game) as much as possible, which is obvious, so lie about who is what if we are forced into a situation where they need to claim to out a counterclaim. softing is also beneficial. (or don't, and trip them up)

[DoubleCapitals]

[Coffeeditto]

Spoiler for Kiana Kaslana(offensive):

Not sure how using this ability is not scummy.

Can be used to roleblock offensive Herrscher roles?

Spoiler for Himeko Murata(offensive):

Coordinate with info roles to kill people.

Would require using more than one targeting role, and less reliable and resourceful or abilities than a lynch. Much more beneficial for scum than town.

Spoiler for Yae Sakura(defensive):

Seems like an overpowered scum ability to protect their entire team from cop. Please do not use this ability.

Can be beneficial for town as long as it doesn't coincide with Durandal target. Yae should out a list of targets here and Durandal investigates outside of it.

Spoiler for Theresa Apocalypse(informative):

Allows you to verify if the player's role claim matches their ability type. If not, claim and lynch.

Has great synergy with Emma; Emma can find a role, and Theresa can check for a different ability type than they're supposed to have to check for Honkai Core.

Spoiler for Kallen Kaslana(offensive):

Allows scum to take a town down with them, not sure what the most useful usage for town is. Best to just leave the ability be or try to drag down someone scummy with a likely NK target.

Can be used in conjunction with Durandal target to link Durandal to his target if they come up Herrscher on a night where Hua's ability is on cooldown.

Spoiler for Rita Rossweisse(defensive):

With how many offensive abilities there are, this practically feels like suicide to use at random. Using this on other defensive roles or cop (why???) should be perceived as scummy.

Can ask for Hua protection and pull a killing ability like Rozaliya's to them to negate it.

Spoiler for Seele Vollerei(passive):

Please do not claim to be the role you received, unless explicitly mentioning this role as well. See received role for suggested usage of that role.

Can stagger Hua saves with Hua if both are town sided. Very useful.

Spoiler for Cecilia Shariac(offensive):

Feel free to target neutral/inactive players once each, since this does not kill them. Targeting mafia as town will make you a very likely NK target, however.

Can confirm self with Theresa (in a 4/5 chance)(assuming both are town).

Spoiler for Emma Planck(informative):

Should be used whenever possible. Identify living power roles to help protect them. Durandal N0, Fu Hua N2.

Both can be Herrscher.

Spoiler for Cocolia(passive):

No usage.

I disagree; if someone claims, Cocolia can verify this. only concern would be a fake or maf Cocolia.

Spoiler for Sin Mal(???):

If you can predict whom gets lynched this ability is extremely useful, but after obtaining new abilities soem informative roles may perceive you as scum. Avoid using two abilities in one night.

Can be very useful if Hua or Durandal flip Herrscher.

[Coffeeditto]

There's also some theorycrafting I've done: if Emma Planck finds someone's role, and Theresa determines that person's ability type and it doesn't match with what their role is, they're confirmed Herrscher. It can't confirm someone as town, but it can confirm if they have a Honkai core.

If Seele outs and Hua uses their save on Seele n0/n1, assuming that it's successful, we can have staggered docs such that there isn't a round in which someone isn't saved until they kill one of the docs. This could be useful a bit later in the game. We could also infinitely chain the docs on each other as long as Raiden is town sided and doesn't drive one of them away from the other. A town Liliya could further solidify this strat assuming that the Raiden is still town sided, as the Raiden can drive the Flash Counter from Liliya onto another player. Will need confirmation from sky on that one.