Elements Mafia 74 - by skyironsword

[TheonlyrealBeef]

"In the bag", of course you do. Your ability is literally the only possible way for you to win this as mafia. You're already dead to me, since you clearly cannot be trusted to use your ability in a way that benefits town: never.

[worldwideweb3]

Don't listen to mean torb, he made you play dials ian

[TheonlyrealBeef]

You realize that if all you use are shitty arguments, it's the same as not having an argument behind your statement to begin with, giving you, like, 0 town points for this entire mafia?

[worldwideweb3]

me not voting helps town more given you trust me enough to be towny. As a mafia, this move is stupid and would draw attention needlessly. If DC somehow turns out to be town, we will have massive problem in that there will be two mafia left. That nightplan of yours will kill cal sub and a NK. Lets assume kdz is nk. This leaves you coffee kaemp me ian. 5 people, 2 mafia, and its a hard hunt for the last 2. As a towny, me with extra voting helps as it makes it a 4-2 instead of a 3-2. From my perspective, it is the right move and i would have rather not said this out but guess I will have to, to avoid random sus.

Even if DC flips mafia, and we go with night plan (of which all flip town), we will have 5 people 1 maf. It will confirm ian as town, leaving coffee kaemp you me. If we ML, ian probs gets nk due to conf status. leaves 3 of us 1 mafia. And again, a 3 vs 1 is much better than a 2 vs 1.


tldr: this is the right move as a town, and mafia has no need to draw attention needlessly.  I will talk more about this "night plan" after DC flip.
 

[Coffeeditto]

me not voting helps town more given you trust me enough to be towny. As a mafia, this move is stupid and would draw attention needlessly. If DC somehow turns out to be town, we will have massive problem in that there will be two mafia left. That nightplan of yours will kill cal sub and a NK. Lets assume kdz is nk. This leaves you coffee kaemp me ian. 5 people, 2 mafia, and its a hard hunt for the last 2. As a towny, me with extra voting helps as it makes it a 4-2 instead of a 3-2. From my perspective, it is the right move and i would have rather not said this out but guess I will have to, to avoid random sus.

Even if DC flips mafia, and we go with night plan (of which all flip town), we will have 5 people 1 maf. It will confirm ian as town, leaving coffee kaemp you me. If we ML, ian probs gets nk due to conf status. leaves 3 of us 1 mafia. And again, a 3 vs 1 is much better than a 2 vs 1.


tldr: this is the right move as a town, and mafia has no need to draw attention needlessly.  I will talk more about this "night plan" after DC flip.
 

it helps mafia just as much or more as/than town, and the argument that "this role wouldn't do this if they were mafia" is straight up wifom. not saying that i scum read you necessarily, but i disagree in saying that it's more useful. you're basically saying that if there are two wagons you have the benefit of having to choose who gets lynched between them (including throwing it off of you) if they're somewhat even. it's not 4-2 at all, and if ian is mafia he won't be able to mechanically confirm himself so he would be either confirmed mafia or cleared in that situation. that brings a 50/50 chance that you're saying you would want to have control of the outcome over. that's just not towny to me

[TheonlyrealBeef]

I'm not sure what part is supposed to make you town, w3. "I'm town" is the primary argument you use, which sucks. It sucks so much, it only makes you even more sus.

There are two situations I am worried about, both come after the plan succeeding while hitting no maf. The most likely remaining people would indeed be me, kaempf, ian, Coffee and w3. If this is 3 vs 2 it's game solved, the mafia are Coffee and w3. If this is 4 vs 1, we still lynch both of you and it's still game solved. But 3 vs 2 would turn into 3 vs 3, town loses. 4 vs 1 would turn into either 4 vs 2 or 5 vs 1. This is the worst case scenario. You'll be unlynchable if you're town and mafia votes with you against lynching you, lynching the other person when you're maf and not voting makes it 3 vs 2 instant loss for town.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

I still suspect w3 is town and the original plan would reveal the actual third mafia after DC dying as the second. But w3 gaining additional voting power makes it undesirably hard to lynch him, forcing town to just assume he is town rather than simply being able to lynch him if he is not. This is NOT desirable, least of all if forced by w3.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

3 vs 1 is much better than a 2 vs 1.

This statement is never true, btw. Either you vote the next day or your voting power becomes 3. Essentially you are arguing the 1 must be me or kaempfer13 in favor of you being town. How stupid do you take me for?

[worldwideweb3]

I'm not sure what part is supposed to make you town, w3. "I'm town" is the primary argument you use, which sucks. It sucks so much, it only makes you even more sus.

There are two situations I am worried about, both come after the plan succeeding while hitting no maf. The most likely remaining people would indeed be me, kaempf, ian, Coffee and w3. If this is 3 vs 2 it's game solved, the mafia are Coffee and w3. If this is 4 vs 1, we still lynch both of you and it's still game solved. But 3 vs 2 would turn into 3 vs 3, town loses. 4 vs 1 would turn into either 4 vs 2 or 5 vs 1. This is the worst case scenario. You'll be unlynchable if you're town and mafia votes with you against lynching you, lynching the other person when you're maf and not voting makes it 3 vs 2 instant loss for town.

That’s the whole point. I know I’m not mafia and you’re hell bent on lynching me. For town to win, I can’t let this happen. Tho this is a very unlikely scenario in that DC is most likely mafia anyways saving us trouble and this not mattering.

[worldwideweb3]

3 vs 1 is much better than a 2 vs 1.

This statement is never true, btw. Either you vote the next day or your voting power becomes 3. Essentially you are arguing the 1 must be me or kaempfer13 in favor of you being town. How stupid do you take me for?

That’s exactly my point, no one is scum reading you or kaemp, so if it comes to that (which has  a 1% chance btw LOL), town are guranteed loss and only way to save is for me to have the ability. It shouldn’t even come to this ability having a bearing on the vote count, unless mafia really did hid them very well

[TheonlyrealBeef]

I think we can both agree that you're essentially shifting the town loss condition from one of me and kaempfer13 being maf, to you being maf or unable to discern the true maf between me and kaempfer13. Therefore, our perspectives will never align on what is best for town.

[worldwideweb3]

Tbh there’s like 0.5% chance you or kae are maf, and this is for that 0.5% situation. All other times it won’t even matter.