Poll

Who played the best mafia?

iancudorinmarian
2 (5.9%)
TheonlyrealBeef
3 (8.8%)
worldwideweb3
5 (14.7%)
Annele
0 (0%)
kaempfer13
1 (2.9%)
Calindu
0 (0%)
Linkcat
1 (2.9%)
moehrpi
0 (0%)
Submachine
13 (38.2%)
serprex
0 (0%)
MasterWalks
0 (0%)
andretimpa
1 (2.9%)
rob77dp
2 (5.9%)
shockcannon
1 (2.9%)
killsdazombies
4 (11.8%)
DoubleCapitals
0 (0%)
Coffeeditto
1 (2.9%)
Ge0metry v2.0
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: June 26, 2020, 09:57:32 pm

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Offline LinkcatTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297262#msg1297262
« Reply #384 on: May 24, 2020, 08:44:28 pm »
For an example of a good tone read, see Mobian last game. Nailed him in a single post.
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297263#msg1297263
« Reply #385 on: May 24, 2020, 08:52:41 pm »
Can someone explain to me what vv, v, n, w in these readlists mean? Tried to do some short Googling but couldn't find anything. All I can tell is that v = good, n = bad, is that all there is to it?

Posting from my phone and I'm too lazy to quote the messages but:

Re: Rob calling me out
My increase in activity and attempt to read people is all in response to Link asking for more from me. Again, in all honesty, a lot of the discussion has been beyond me and I don't have strong opinions.

Re: Rob asking for my opinion on sub
This is one of those situations where I have no idea how highly I should weigh my suspicions. Do I think his posts are slightly sus? Sure. But I also thought the same of shock, and link, and serp at different times in the thread and they were vouched for by other people. Sub has his share of people saying this is normal behaviour for him and I'm inclined to agree as I don't know how he talks/plays.

I would also like to mention that I'm afraid of seeming too bandwagon-y now and so I don't want to vote? I don't know, once again - completely in over my head right now.

As a general rule if you are town (here: elemental) you should stop worrying so much what other people think of you. Solve to the best of your ability, if people want to lynch you for your genuine thoughts, it's their fault they are reading you wrong. But if you are simply playing to try to adhere to what people expect of you, rather than actually trying to form your own thoughts, that is when you (rightfully) look scummy.
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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297264#msg1297264
« Reply #386 on: May 24, 2020, 08:56:45 pm »
Which gives us the www3 corollary: if you're NKed it's because you're good, if you're lynched it's because everyone else is bad

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Offline LinkcatTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297265#msg1297265
« Reply #387 on: May 24, 2020, 08:59:35 pm »
Is that what he says? I kind of just tuned him out after a certain point.
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Offline TheonlyrealBeef

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297266#msg1297266
« Reply #388 on: May 24, 2020, 09:08:27 pm »
TorB, a thing you have to understand about mafia is that normally lynch and nk alternate. The latter will always hit a town. The former usually doesnt have that much better odds than random to hit a mafia. If you have one shot that you have to use immediately or lose it, shooting at random has effectively a better chance of hitting a mafia member per death created than the lynch, as the lynch requires a nightkill to have occured before and usually people arent that amazing at hitting mafia with the lynch.

I'm saying this now, because in both etg and the last mafia  you used too basically think the same I did (just better) and this time we somehow seem to have fairly different opinions about robs action, and that made me suspicious of you until identified that that seems to be the source of our disagreement.
Thank you for trying to step up and protect rob with your out of tone post. I was already considering you both for mafia, but this practically confirms it for me.
Well, you are wrong about at least one thing.
Besides I wouldnt panic that much over rob (in the obv nonexistent world of us w/w) now considering the votecount.

Anyway, what would you have done if you were fate egg and rolled oty (it's gone the next night). from what i am gathering you would have holstered? I'm not the only one that can explain to you why thats a mistake as either alignement.
Will you stop shoving statements into my mouth? Of course you are not panicking. Do you know what the best time and method is to defend rob? By silencing the instigator after the suspect has left the spotlight.

As for the question: I am pretty sure my previous statements have made perfectly clear I would not target someone with a kill ability, that I would expect to be modkilled anyway.

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297268#msg1297268
« Reply #389 on: May 24, 2020, 10:06:14 pm »
TorB, a thing you have to understand about mafia is that normally lynch and nk alternate. The latter will always hit a town. The former usually doesnt have that much better odds than random to hit a mafia. If you have one shot that you have to use immediately or lose it, shooting at random has effectively a better chance of hitting a mafia member per death created than the lynch, as the lynch requires a nightkill to have occured before and usually people arent that amazing at hitting mafia with the lynch.

I'm saying this now, because in both etg and the last mafia  you used too basically think the same I did (just better) and this time we somehow seem to have fairly different opinions about robs action, and that made me suspicious of you until identified that that seems to be the source of our disagreement.
Thank you for trying to step up and protect rob with your out of tone post. I was already considering you both for mafia, but this practically confirms it for me.
Well, you are wrong about at least one thing.
Besides I wouldnt panic that much over rob (in the obv nonexistent world of us w/w) now considering the votecount.

Anyway, what would you have done if you were fate egg and rolled oty (it's gone the next night). from what i am gathering you would have holstered? I'm not the only one that can explain to you why thats a mistake as either alignement.
Will you stop shoving statements into my mouth? Of course you are not panicking. Do you know what the best time and method is to defend rob? By silencing the instigator after the suspect has left the spotlight.

As for the question: I am pretty sure my previous statements have made perfectly clear I would not target someone with a kill ability, that I would expect to be modkilled anyway.
Well, your initial dislike of using an offensive role implied you would have holstered. But since you veto that now, what would have been the right way to use it according to  you?
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Offline TheonlyrealBeef

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297269#msg1297269
« Reply #390 on: May 24, 2020, 11:01:24 pm »
Spoiler for Hidden:
TorB, a thing you have to understand about mafia is that normally lynch and nk alternate. The latter will always hit a town. The former usually doesnt have that much better odds than random to hit a mafia. If you have one shot that you have to use immediately or lose it, shooting at random has effectively a better chance of hitting a mafia member per death created than the lynch, as the lynch requires a nightkill to have occured before and usually people arent that amazing at hitting mafia with the lynch.

I'm saying this now, because in both etg and the last mafia  you used too basically think the same I did (just better) and this time we somehow seem to have fairly different opinions about robs action, and that made me suspicious of you until identified that that seems to be the source of our disagreement.
Thank you for trying to step up and protect rob with your out of tone post. I was already considering you both for mafia, but this practically confirms it for me.
Well, you are wrong about at least one thing.
Besides I wouldnt panic that much over rob (in the obv nonexistent world of us w/w) now considering the votecount.

Anyway, what would you have done if you were fate egg and rolled oty (it's gone the next night). from what i am gathering you would have holstered? I'm not the only one that can explain to you why thats a mistake as either alignement.
Will you stop shoving statements into my mouth? Of course you are not panicking. Do you know what the best time and method is to defend rob? By silencing the instigator after the suspect has left the spotlight.

As for the question: I am pretty sure my previous statements have made perfectly clear I would not target someone with a kill ability, that I would expect to be modkilled anyway.
Well, your initial dislike of using an offensive role implied you would have holstered. But since you veto that now, what would have been the right way to use it according to  you?
Veto? What are you even talking about? I said I would not use a kill ability N0. Moreover, it does not even matter!
Just so we're 100% clear, eating Coffee was a good play as either alignment so that doesn't say much by itself, and it's amusing that multiple people are reading it both ways. It's his reactions afterward that you should be focusing on for your read.
What I chose was simply the best self-perceived angle of attack at the time. The reactions to it have been totally worth it.

Also, if kaempfer flips mafia, rob is also likely mafia.
If rob flips mafia, andretimpa is also likely mafia.
Spoiler for reasoning:
The relative low level of pushes to sway wagons I see as likely indicative of possibly:
1. We have competing scum wagons (which would be GREAT)
2. We have competing town wagons (do NOT like this)
3. elements activity is always lower than I'm used to elsewhere, so just not a lot of "prescence"...

--> I'm accustomed to most players being around at EOD's, in which case calm thread means scum have either no reason to try to manuever (town wagons; or dont' know how to parse wagons of teammates) / town feel 'solved' on an acceptable state of votes... or the worst case just a dead thread activity level which is not fun at all.
rob is posting this at the time where andretimpa is ahead in votes. Why? He is hoping to shift the train in favor of someone other than andretimpa without having the entire mafia list in the train.

So all three of those lynches are good in my opinion.

Sub and Link are probably town, because of current lynch counts along with rob trying to incriminate Sub and kaempfer trying to incriminate Link as well as Sub/Links posts so far.
Spoiler for incrimination:
I have been going at Part 1 for almost six hours. I need a break.

If we do not get an extension and I get a pile of votes while I am away, I will live with it.
You're not the leading wagon, just one of the competing wagons... come down a notch and do some solving stuff or planning or w/e Sub does. That is, play to your win-con which as town is to your dying breath keep clawing at what you don't know and parsing what you think you know and do know to push information into the thread. Only a scum truly should arrive at a point where stopping in the thread is logically the best move for a win-con (i.e. - scum have a REASON to quit trying toward rough day phases as they know information they shouldn't as town; whereas, town don't really know all that much usually so they should see no GAME reasons to concede). Caveat emptor: humans are human, so town and scum can overlap in end-of-day emotional reactions, I realize this.

TL;DR - town!Sub should find plenty of reason to keep clawing as it helps town; scum!Sub just might have a legit breaking point to stop posting / spewing.

That's my exhortation here.

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297270#msg1297270
« Reply #391 on: May 24, 2020, 11:15:46 pm »
We're still missing one mafia...
@MasterWalks
Given the information you have observed, how likely is it that kaempfer13 and shockcannon are both mafia?

Offline MasterWalks

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297271#msg1297271
« Reply #392 on: May 24, 2020, 11:24:30 pm »
dont think they share a primary
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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297272#msg1297272
« Reply #393 on: May 24, 2020, 11:44:50 pm »
I got something for you, Torb.

Annele- be honest, you have no real knowledge whether I have an ability now or not so just toss out the lines about how you think I might be scum due to some stretch about me being some kind of mafia bait piece angle.

Is this a Fate Egg claim?

rob, torb, serp and Anelle are coming of a bit suspicious, but I'll see where things go a bit longer before casting a vote.

Here andre sheeps rob's scumreads but then throws rob in as well. Very odd. This is why I asked rob about an andre lynch. While he was fine with the other option I presented, he refused this one while keeping him at a comfortable n- in his readslist. I was kind of cooling down on the andre lynch because of the same reason rob had in that post, but I didn't say anything. It would be just his style to use that to spook us into another lynch without having to force it. There's no way he would risk himself to defend andre openly. Not sold on kaempfer, though.
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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297273#msg1297273
« Reply #394 on: May 25, 2020, 12:09:32 am »
I suppose I'll post again to get my count at least even with someone who died N0.


It's a real shame we extended the vote timer. Now I have to deal with reading another 5-10 pages of noobs being manipulated by mafia. I also really hope there isn't any last minute vote switches to reset the timer in the last hour of voting. Personally, I think no lynch is really our best option here. Town has a lot to gain from the next night phase. The fact that everyone is 100% convinced that you must always lynch each day phase is a real flaw that's going to hold us back this game. But whatever, I'm not going to try to fight 15 other players and all is not lost even with this happening.

If we must lynch and if you want my two cents, the only lynch targets that are really going to give us good information regardless of which faction they flip are Linkcat, Rob, and Masterwalks. Anyone else is a waste of time or a complete gamble. Obviously, you can feel free to disagree with me or probe me with useless questions that I might not answer, but this is how I feel right now. The votes on andre, kaempf, and sub are a distraction and I hope you all don't fall for it. And being a distraction doesn't mean that they are necessarily town and it also doesn't mean that mafia are voting for those players. It's very possible for an elemental to have a high vote count, yet have all those votes be cast by other elementals.


Oh btw, if you guys are going to spam out 33 pages of text before N1, at least make it interesting. The only remotely important posts since N0 ended are:

TorB, a thing you have to understand about mafia is that normally lynch and nk alternate. The latter will always hit a town. The former usually doesnt have that much better odds than random to hit a mafia. If you have one shot that you have to use immediately or lose it, shooting at random has effectively a better chance of hitting a mafia member per death created than the lynch, as the lynch requires a nightkill to have occured before and usually people arent that amazing at hitting mafia with the lynch.

I'm saying this now, because in both etg and the last mafia  you used too basically think the same I did (just better) and this time we somehow seem to have fairly different opinions about robs action, and that made me suspicious of you until identified that that seems to be the source of our disagreement.
Thank you for trying to step up and protect rob with your out of tone post. I was already considering you both for mafia, but this practically confirms it for me.

and:

dont think they share a primary

and:

Annele - the initial approach she took to scumread me for my N0 felt awkwardly aimed at me... however, the back-down after some explanations occurred felt a little more genuine. A bit "off" feeling to me that the backdown came so easy after so much shade (as a ratio of her total posts, to those shading me). It does though seem possible this is how she approaches reads, but need to see more to feel better/stronger about reading her play.

I was undecided on your move for a while before I posted, but ultimately I came to the same conclusion as torb - having forgotten fate egg, I thought that the less unlikely answer was that you were mafia. I didn't want to go soft and let mafia get away with such a brazen move, hence the shade With fate egg in the mix, and having thought it over some more, I realised that though it's possible you're mafia, town was a lot more likely than I had assumed. I appreciate the explanation for why you chose ditto. Looking at it now, I think mafia would have chosen a target more useful to town (either one who's posting a lot or however they managed to pluck out GN), since you were bound to get heat either way.

You're way over-analyzing Ge0, he's playing exactly like someone dipping their toes back into mafia after a long time and what little content he had felt real. No reason to vote him right now.

I don't think it's necessarily overanalysing geo, geo's posts gave me the same vibe I had when playing as mafia last round. I agree no reason to vote on just yet, but I'm wary of him. andre has a similar vibe without the over-explaining lack of posting, but I completely forgot all his posts until rob mentioned him and I re-read them, which I think makes him more suspicious. I'm not sure how to read linkcat just yet but I agree with the reasoning behind it.

rob77dp (1) - Ge0metry v1.2
MasterWalks (1) - DoubleCapitals
Submachine (3) - Calindu, serprex, rob77dp
adrenatimpa (1) - Linkcat, Annele

I didn't vote before because of the graboid suggestion but I'd like to see what sub has to say before he's killed. There seems to be a lot to this story that I've somehow missed? I'm curious to see how much it will change.

Also hbd kdz.

Everything else so far has just been white noise to me. Also @kaempf, like I said in my post, ignore anything that others say about me, especially if it pertains to my role, my reads on others, or the implications of my posts. Despite popular belief, the town wins this game if they can win the night phase, while the mafia wins this game if they can win the day phase. Hopefully this helps people understand why it's okay to no lynch and why N1 will be a VERY important night for town.
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Offline LinkcatTopic starter

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1297274#msg1297274
« Reply #395 on: May 25, 2020, 12:17:18 am »
I didn't stop reading after you said we should No Lynch, but I should have since you provided nothing of substance in this post.
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