Oh whoops I should've made it something random since moe would be able to prove it by knowing the random phrase
Text is "DejaVu:moe,serp"
So, uh, hi
Well, this is as close as mechanically confirmed for me, since there's no way mafia risks 2 of their players to hard claim DejaVu. Someone do check them with Psion or even Endow for that matter, but it is not urgent in my opinion.
shockcannon- My role gives me insight that he is town
Kaempfer- see shockcannons reasoning
I really think it's not a good idea to hard hint at roles this early, it puts people with power roles at risk way too early if mafia deduces out of random hints the roles.
I also don't think it is urgent. Will get to TorB's post at the end. At least there wasn't anyone to publicly counter-claim, but from my own perspective I don't see reason for anyone to doubt it. (Also, this post is a couple of pages old...)
No, it's not. If you have an information role then stay in the background and collect as much of it as possible, don't draw attention to yourself. You didn't even do anything helpful.
How not? I guess i can run around in circles with rob, you, and sub but i would rather try to provide some hard evidence. My role is not a great one but there is no reason for me to hold any information. If i die then that information goes with me.
Normally im not killed early. People see me as too disruptive to town to kill me. But with rob running around munching everthing i do not know when ill die. Might as well get out what i can while i can. If it paints a target, then so be it. My role is not important enough that ill probably save the NK from someone more important if i do get hit with it.
Now, i want your full list of reads. Youve been highly active with an opinion on everything said (nothing out of the ordinary), so lets see your info in basic form.
It's disruptive as mafia info roles have a much easier job. But your claim makes for some nice town reads imo.
I kinda skimmed through posts. So I guess it's time to make up my own list.
vv - deja vu's. Impossible (?) to counterclaim
serp
moe
v
rob - I really think he's just town fate egg and didn't want to "waste" his ability. Arguably a bad decision, but I don't think he's mafia.
n+
TorB - similar playstyle as last time I played with him.
n
Linkcat - Probably hardest person to read for me, so better players will have to keep an eye up for slip-ups.
Sub - Bad plans as usual.
n-
shock - I agree, he's too quiet. Although he could just be bored. Out of town, apparently
Fixing vote count. Also, probably not voting today.
rob77dp (3) - Linkcat, serprex, Ge0metry v1.2
MasterWalks (1) - DoubleCapitals
TheonlyrealBeef (1) - rob77dp
Submachine (1) - Calindu
Nothing special here. One of the first read lists. I liked that it mostly included town-leans which is the same way I see people especially early on: either towny or neutral-controversial / neutral-inconspicuous.
One thing to add, from the initial shade on rob I saw, to the epiphany of the nature of his secondary role I slowly find the way back to the idea that he could have pulled the same thing off as mafia. It is a plausible play. // Unfortunately, I don't recall who also pointed this out (way later). Quickly skimming over some posts didn't help me find it. Getting slightly overwhelmed with the amount of input, sorry.
so basically we regard moe, shock, serp as confirmed and either watch in horror as the mafia kills them 1 by 1 or try to solve the game while they are still around. Pretty wastefull to make that public this early, but it does make our PoE a lot smaller.
I will be very very surprised is mafia kills shock. Shock helps mafia more alive than dead.
Moe and serp while can be "considered as town confirmed" dont have ultra powerful roles and would be killed just beacuse they are our "confirmed" town, which honestly helps us since their roles werent going to and the NK is saved from more important people.
i dont think we should hard confirm anybody. We should just keep this information in mind when voting and discussing. serp could be lying, we havent even got confirmation from Moe and i dont think he should confirm.
My question is, is Lynching rob the best move (honest question)? If he flips town, almost all conversations this phase were a waste and we lose a powerful role, whether that be oty or egg.
If we dont lynch rob, who do we lynch? doing a no lynch is probably the worst thing we can do, and we need some pretty hard evidence to get everyone to jump on a different lynch.
The only way for me not to confirm it is by calling out serp or going AWOL.
But I agree that kae that confirmed town make a juicy NK target.
Honestly I like Link the least right now. Feels to me like he's shooting down any semblance of a read that doesnt fit his narrative and tries to sow the seed of doubt wherever he can. also I'm getting the feeling that his amusement with every single important town power role being revealed before the game has even started properly is actually genuine (joy at how easy this was) rather than a vet who has given up hope on people handling power roles properly.
In the last mafia where he wasnt nearly as active he made a bunch of pretty confident townreads at this stage, rather than keeping all options open for a potential lynch later.
Very interesting perspective that opened my eyes. Great input! (This time generic praise for a person is not to me mistaken for breadcrumbing.
)
I thought I remembered some credo that early read lists weren't all that great. But reading further this doesn't seem to be the case. :/
Anyway, Link emphatically asking for my read list (after I mentioned it first) and the memeing struck me a bit weird, but not in a scummy way.
Switching my vote from rob to Sub until he can offer something more than a cliffhanger. Also makes it so the tally isn't so far back
rob77dp (1) - Linkcat
MasterWalks (1) - DoubleCapitals
TheonlyrealBeef (1) - rob77dp
Submachine (2) - Calindu, serprex
Ultimately I'm going to vote for whomever moe votes for, since he has a better read on this than I do
I am not sure I agree with this. But for the current vote I agree with what Ge0 said that he has to take other people's word for Sub's behaviour. I also think I mentioned it in another mafia: I first spectated mafia on this forums when Sub was mafia and had an early read on him. The second mafia the same happened and he was town. So, I rather refrain from putting too much thought into him.
MasterWalks (1) - DoubleCapitals
Submachine (3) - Calindu, serprex, rob77dp
Read below please. I fancy a vote on Sub or Ge0, but stronger read right now on Sub (again, read all below please)
Ge0 - you going to vote Sub? What's your read on him, and/or reaction to my read on Sub??
v+
serp
moe
v-
kae - he has had some takes that come across as real solving attempts that fit the stage of the game
shock - a few reasons... I'm a tad uncomfortable typing them directly here
v--
MW - his posting today reads like a person really trying to think through the game... like he is typing in the thread without having had other conversations (as a scum would likely be doing in a scum chat). For example, I feel confident that the scum this game would not post in here without being up to speed on the rob-N0-coffee-shot and how Oty works etc (this post leans me a town direction from MW)
n+
DC - basically only $#@!posting so far... which I recall from past DC/q games is NAI
kdz - not even enough content to remember he is playing unless I'm looking at the player list
n-
timpa - very blaise posting so far, minimally at that. I know he has a mind and capability to exceed his input / solving so far and if town I expect to see it. scum timpa could be simply put off by not needing to solve so lacking WIM. These are VERY loose aspects to read from, hence some negative comments but just an n- read.
Link - see my prior wall post... seems a bit more likely to not be his more solve-y town Link. still miles to go to develop this though
iancu - the incomplete reads list, he did mention only skimming but the omission of a few players with plenty of posts and more than some he DID read pings my senses (he omitted kae and MW??)
Cal - I really don't like the way he goes to policy, and bad play lynch approach in order to vote me, but reading over the stuff in his posts so far it actually reads like he really just believes that is a fair set of reasons to lynch a player (they aren't by the way). Given his replies and vote/etc. with Sub I really don't see any w/w with Sub (who is a strong scumread for me right now).
w-
Annele - the initial approach she took to scumread me for my N0 felt awkwardly aimed at me... however, the back-down after some explanations occurred felt a little more genuine. A bit "off" feeling to me that the backdown came so easy after so much shade (as a ratio of her total posts, to those shading me). It does though seem possible this is how she approaches reads, but need to see more to feel better/stronger about reading her play.
Torb - I find his initial push on me to be stronger than his reasons would/should normally portend, that is a bit like he set out wanting to scumread me and then filled in the take/read. looking forward to reading his posts/reads following some of the posting that has gone on today. from today and re-reading he and I's exchanges I could see this possibly being a v/v clash of style or misunderstood statements/actions (that is, he seemed in a re-read genuinely upset I had not fleshed out my reasoning or further detailed my N0 action process... I have since done that and look forward to seeing how he reacts to it, if he does) to say it a different way-- perhaps he is a very mechanical player who wants to be able to understand how other players make somewhat important game decisions and as of yet he hasn't arrived at that point with me+N0
w+
Ge0 - talking about how caught up he is; more talk about why he might appear to not be playing/solving much and a way wish-washy meandering around his read on me at a time when it felt in the thread (at least to me) like I might become a wagon - like he wants to hedge why he jumps on later should I become a good ML target; suddenly has townreads on the Deja-claiming duo and having gone from thinking my play is likely towny because he "can't help but think that there's no way Rob would draw so much attention to him right off the bat if he was scum" to voting me as scummy b/c of that same misplay and because I gave scumreads of Annele/Serp/TorB???
^-- I find all of these things at least a bit scummy or more.
Sub - reading the thread and Sub's posts I get a sense of wolf-losing-WIM due to 'reasons', whereas the last part of today I get a sense in the thread of things developing that might actually benefit town simultaneous with Sub losing his Want-It-More (WIM).
Nice catch on MW that strenghtens my read on him.
You fire up the propaganda train on andre which gained traction. I guess I have to reread this development...
Please don't hit on TorB to much. If I had been more active I also would have voiced strong concern for your play before I thought it through. He's not the only one. You later mentioned v/v issues / different perseptive / something along those lines. I'd love to see you both let it go. (Same for your perspective on Nelly and serp to a certain point)
Yor criticism on Ge0 can be explained by lack of activity, reading pages on end and adopting others' opinions. Not ideal play but once he found something he feels a bit more strongly about he did voice his opinion. I don't find it suspicious.
Torb - I find his initial push on me to be stronger than his reasons would/should normally portend, that is a bit like he set out wanting to scumread me and then filled in the take/read. looking forward to reading his posts/reads following some of the posting that has gone on today. from today and re-reading he and I's exchanges I could see this possibly being a v/v clash of style or misunderstood statements/actions (that is, he seemed in a re-read genuinely upset I had not fleshed out my reasoning or further detailed my N0 action process... I have since done that and look forward to seeing how he reacts to it, if he does) to say it a different way-- perhaps he is a very mechanical player who wants to be able to understand how other players make somewhat important game decisions and as of yet he hasn't arrived at that point with me+N0
Elementary, my dear rob. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
I could see no possible situation in which this is a good call for town, I could see a very unlikely situation where this would benefit mafia. Therefore, you must be mafia.
With that said, I will believe your own conviction of this being a good move (or at the very least acceptable), which is indeed more credible with Fate Egg. Even if I still disagree with this move.
Regretting a town died or being sorry about it is useless. The idea is that you regret the decision and would agree not to make the same decision again if faced with identical circumstances. Not doing so matches up nicely with the previous statement. If you were half-hearted about it, you should never have made a move like that to begin with.
Will look over all this juicy info and get my thoughts out on all the people now that I'm semi-done tunneling (in ~3 hours).
I fully agree with TorB's point on regret. I also had issues (pointed out in my previous post) with your argument that hitting mafia would be great, weakening your main argument.
However, I need to defend rob here. As he himself pointed out before any Fate Egg talk he repeatedly wanted a discussion about the liability of inactive players because he was on a timer. Everyone else ignored it as there was little to nothing to go on. He made a judgement call that did not pay off. Wasting an ability feels bad, one might expect more from rob, but him feeling left alone in this decision possibly contributed to the outcome. Some sort of defiant reaction / feeling of impotence to get lazy town on their asses and discuss important things because there still too many uncertanties combined with his general disliking of low-activity play and maybe even the rules. Sounds very reasonable to me as opposed to calculated play from mafia where he 'doesn't get killed anyway' and Fate Egg claim gets him out of the wood. /psychoanalysis
For context, I haven't played a text based mafia game since the last one played here. I'm afraid I'm a bit out of my depth at this point. So if you expect plays of any kind, sadly you'll have to find that elsewhere.
Further, as for the recent inactivity, which I am aware is a less then positive for the game as a whole comes from a slightly busy weekend, and bit of a large chunk since my last check in. (Last I read we were still on page 10. Oh the memories) But don't worry, I'm back from the dead mostly. Once I'm in a slightly better headspace (Just celebrated my late birthday!) I'll hopefully be able to read up and provide an insight and opinion into the current happenings.
Side note, can I just say how i've missed the 3 page long deep dives into reads. Ya'll go hard.
Happy birthday! I always like to see people actively contributing.
4. You are allowed to vote for No Lynch. You are also allowed to vote for a 1 hour or 24 hour extension. The votes are counted in a separate tally and you may only do one extension per phase.
I would like to note that this is very much a thing, and between there being concerns about rulebreaking, one of the lynch candidates apparently working on the wall of walls on that topic and thus not being able to explain himself for a while and several new reads emerging as well as me myself needing more time to collect my thoughts, I think we should make use of it. in fact it's optimal for town to do that whenever possible, but I dont want to test everyones patience unnecessarily.
I also believe that the time for ou to mention it the first time was well chosen. Get the idea out there, see how it unfolds and if others feel right at the end of the day we can extend. Sub's promised post is a great reason for it, too.
Clarification: Deja Vu is (at this point) always town.
Alright, so a list of reads soon. But first, I want to focus on something more important:
The fact that serprex and moehrpi might both be deja vu town. I'm reading posts like "I believe" or "I think" and other such weak sentiments. If you are going to call someone hard town or blindside them you need to be convinced.
So I will be putting on my tinfoil hat and try some angles of attack. For example:
What's the policy on posting sha512sum outputs for texts I might reveal later on?
68d20623a7d31b31bb0d65d4078979ef676816ccc2bb5595d5a0ad8429ee9eeb58ecabdb42b57bf92e32440212994f5702b597713a8269ea2d720f4c790b3ece
I'll follow Ginyu's example from last Mafia and disallow them. I'll let you off if you reveal the meaning of it now, though.
Should have totally been the expected outcome and:
I was pretty tempted to ragequit over no breadcrumbing, cryptography is a right, & let moe reveal it to prove he's town after I get modkilled
Is missing the rage feels to me.
So now, taking the statement "serprex is deja vu alongside moehrpi" as not truth, let us focus on alternative hypotheses that I could think of:
- serprex is not deja vu, moehrpi is town. Regardless of serprex' alignment, either moehrpi or a real deja vu should deny his claim in that case. serprex will end up dead.
- serprex is not deja vu, moehrpi is mafia. The only way this could benefit serprex, is if he is also mafia. They could not have known there would not be an actual deja vu town pair and a deja vu should counter-claim if there is. Even if there is no deja vu in this game and neither of them are nightkilled for some time, it only takes a single tinfoil hat role inspector to bust two mafia in one go. The risk is too high.
- serprex is deja vu, moehrpi is town non-deja vu. This is a reaaally weird angle since I have no idea how this is supposed to help serprex, since he should not know moehrpi's alignment. I would expect a counterclaim from moehrpi here. It also means there is another town, the real paired up deja vu, that has communicated and agreed on this with serprex.
- serprex is deja vu, moehrpi is mafia. Weirdest angle you can go for. I do not see any benefit from this for town = serprex.
With this, we indeed reach Calindu's conclusion of:
Oh whoops I should've made it something random since moe would be able to prove it by knowing the random phrase
Text is "DejaVu:moe,serp"
So, uh, hi
Well, this is as close as mechanically confirmed for me, since there's no way mafia risks 2 of their players to hard claim DejaVu. Someone do check them with Psion or even Endow for that matter, but it is not urgent in my opinion.
I mean, I'd argue there is a way, but it's not a significant probability.
Not sure how much into detail I should go here as writing is tiresome and in his next post he put serp and me under vv. Also not going to look at his latest allegations of Sub too closely now. But I am a great fan of his devil's advocate approach. (quoted post)
Put an explanation for this play is so if either of us dies without a prior claim the other one can escape from the mob's clutches easily.
town reads:
serp
moe
torb
mw (his backpedal on his read/verification on shock is worrysome, though) didn't make a new list
rob
kae
Sorry for this vey brief list(, TorB). I will try hard to bring some own points to the discussion before end of the day. And also for taking the discussion back several pages in some cases.
MW, why the newfound uncertainty about shock?
Poll
