Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa

[Linkcat]

This is descending into WIFOM. Rpb, just admit you wasted your shot so we can move on.

Serp, your logic is good, but in mafia it's far more valuable to have hard voting data with competing trains than to have some chance of mafia missing an ability.

[Annele]

None of them - I was just fucking around as with MW who scumread JCJ. Just like how JCJ isn't playing, Jailor doesn't exist here.

* DoubleCapitals whistles

TL;DR to answer why: I jokingly claimed something that doesn't exist

Ah, I see. rob's reaction made me think it might have been an actual claim lol

Coffeeditto was devoured by rob77dp. He was an Elemental and a Seraph.

I understand wanting to get a OU ability out of the way in case you're killed early and it's wasted but coffeeditto was one of the worst choices possible?? Just by balance of probability, since we know nothing about ditto except that he hadn't logged in for a couple of days, rob was far more likely to hit a town. If rob is town too, then wtf.

If rob is mafia though, it's a great excuse to point at 'iNaCtIvItY' (on night 0!) rather than have to defend some botched scumread on someone who's already posted quite a bit and we can judge for ourselves, or on someone who hasn't posted enough to scumread but can't be called inactive just yet. (lol me)

It's outrageous enough that he might just get away with it, and if things go sour go him then it's easy enough for other mafia to throw him under the bus since him devouring coffeeditto isn't connected to anyone else. He'd also be the least useful mafia now since he has no ability.

I agree with the tally as it currently is.

[rob77dp]

Link- I already admitted that in hindsight it is a negative result. Imagine the hard clear I get from hitting hiding scum. Inactive town is a dead town anyway as I see it, I've been around the block before and read many games where inactives suck up day energy. At least this had a chance to get scum or in the worse case scenario we seem to be in now from my shot the discussion is about a living player who is active to post, read, and be read.

(Also playing almost entirely by phone posting is driving me nuts \OT-rant)

[rob77dp]

Also I forget what it's called but the syndrome of scumreading someone who scumreads me is a strong feeling right now. Like I don't even understand how a town player - if they're even here - can scumread my shot on the way being discussed. Link feels like probably just being Link so far could go either way on you right now. Scum link will be happy to let others pressure me if he doesn't have to do heavy lifting on me and town Link is wise enough to not slot me either way yet.

Annele, serp, torb are the strongest feel of that term (scumread vibes back on a scumread) right now. Their pushes don't feel genuine in meaning or tone to me. But I need to take some time to think through and not just feel it.

Annele- be honest, you have no real knowledge whether I have an ability now or not so just toss out the lines about how you think I might be scum due to some stretch about me being some kind of mafia bait piece angle.

[rob77dp]

I'll eat my hat if there isn't AT LEAST 1 scum in the trio.
I feel pretty good right now that one or more of torb Annele serp are scum... Man, need to sleep- wake up fresh hopefully to give more\deeper thought on those. And get some more distance and ideally internal clarity about how to think about how I expect town or scum to react to my n0 shot.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

How about instead of continuing to (counter)attack me, you either reject or accept my counterarguments to your arguments for your N0 kill of inactive? If your arguments are not only invalid, but you purposefully avoid defending them, instead derailing the conversation by attacking me, that is suspicious to me. I will rest my case here until you do, since this is going nowhere.

Let me summarize:

I clearly hinted at my pending action. I can almost guarantee inactivity becomes a magnet for scum to aim at it the inactive is town. If an inactive is scum then they can share by doing nothing. So I essentially vigged the lone inactive. Sadly they were town, but now we can actually work towards solving the game instead of debating a zero poster who was also, I might add, an inactivity modkill a year ago in their prior elements mafia participation.

The conclusion of this story is that Coffee was likely genuinely inactive. If he were modkilled, everything would be fine. Given these facts, how is a completely random kill justified? To me, the most suspicious people had exactly one post. 0 likely just means total inactivity.

I DID NOT TAKE THE PLANNING OF MY ACTION LIGHTLY. Anyone want to discuss it further I'm game. Voting me ONLY because of that is inane (serp? Care to give your read of me and not just the makes hour?)

If you did not take it lightly, show your conviction. If you want to discuss it, start by what I just mentioned. You say you want to discuss it then attack me for wanting to discuss it. I did not even vote on you yet.

[Ge0metry v1.2]

Alright guys, this is getting boring. Geo, kdz, calin, shock, Annele, moe, you guys all have less than 5 posts. You're hurting town. I'm going to need all of you to vote on your strongest scumread and give reasoning. And no, saying you don't have any reads yet is not helpful. Look deeper.

Sorry, work is keeping me busier than I would like but rest assured I am keeping an eye on the thread. I would have liked to ease myself into the game a bit slower as I have not played mafia in half a decade and I can't read people based on personalities. I will try my best to contribute as much as I can nevertheless. Apologies in advance if I sound a bit like an echo chamber.

On a shallow level of analysis, I agree with the current tally. I don't have anything to say that hasn't been said already regarding Rob's N0 actions and how it paint's him in negative light. That being said I can't help but think that there's no way Rob would draw so much attention to him right off the bat if he was scum.  Or maybe Rob is thinking on one level deeper, intentionally making a mistake he knows we wouldn't think he'd make.

Having read through all the posts a couple of times I can't seem to find any other conclusions. It's hard to make reads when posts that are suspicious to me, just get dismissed as banter or so-and-so being silly. If you're asking for my strongest scumread, it's Rob - but I'm not at all confident on it.

[Annele]

Also I forget what it's called but the syndrome of scumreading someone who scumreads me is a strong feeling right now. Like I don't even understand how a town player - if they're even here - can scumread my shot on the way being discussed. Link feels like probably just being Link so far could go either way on you right now. Scum link will be happy to let others pressure me if he doesn't have to do heavy lifting on me and town Link is wise enough to not slot me either way yet.

Annele, serp, torb are the strongest feel of that term (scumread vibes back on a scumread) right now. Their pushes don't feel genuine in meaning or tone to me. But I need to take some time to think through and not just feel it.

Annele- be honest, you have no real knowledge whether I have an ability now or not so just toss out the lines about how you think I might be scum due to some stretch about me being some kind of mafia bait piece angle.

Ah, I forgot about fate egg. I was trying to rationalise why either town or mafia would use oty's ability immediately but I see now there are more possibilities. I'm less convinced, but I still think it's something the mafia might try to pull off. I'm keen to see what your answer to torb's question is.

[Calindu]

Alright guys, this is getting boring. Geo, kdz, calin, shock, Annele, moe, you guys all have less than 5 posts. You're hurting town. I'm going to need all of you to vote on your strongest scumread and give reasoning. And no, saying you don't have any reads yet is not helpful. Look deeper.

Sorry, only had time to read last night, I'll formulate my post and vote now.

All I hope is MasterWalks doesn't get some blocking ability again and spams it for no reason

I think ian is gaslighting here. He is trying to get me to tunnel on him. People wont believe me if i say to lynch him since they will think its because of this comment. This is sketchy.

Because last time you tunneled hard on someone we spent like 3 or 4 day phases in that thunderdome between you and that person if memory serves me right.

I clearly hinted at my pending action. I can almost guarantee inactivity becomes a magnet for scum to aim at it the inactive is town. If an inactive is scum then they can share by doing nothing. So I essentially vigged the lone inactive. Sadly they were town, but now we can actually work towards solving the game instead of debating a zero poster who was also, I might add, an inactivity modkill a year ago in their prior elements mafia participation. I DID NOT TAKE THE PLANNING OF MY ACTION LIGHTLY. Anyone want to discuss it further I'm game. Voting me ONLY because of that is inane (serp? Care to give your read of me and not just the makes hour?)

Tbh, with you mentioning the inactivity modkill in a game years ago, this seems like more of a grudge kill to me. Not sure how you decided that someone who sadly was inactive 1 day during N0 deserved this extreme action. Maybe he would have been modkilled eventually, but you can't spin this like a good action. If it were almost anyone else doing this, they would have been lynched out of principle, so now this action is possible even if you are mafia.

Just because someone attracts a bunch of attention, that does not equal lynch target. Activity leads to more activity. Punishment of activity is bad. Because of this, even if rob or Link say something outrageous, keep them alive please. They are most likely town if they are active, anyway.

What? I agree that we should not punish activity, but in the same time, why should we look the other way when it comes to rob or Link? Are we really that useless without them that we are ok with losing on the spot if they are mafia? From this, all I get is that if you are mafia, they have a higher chance of being too, and same the other way around.

But I also wanted to imply that I only want to keep these people alive "longer", but not indefinitely. Hopefully, by the endgame, all town with lower activity is cleared out by either making them contribute more or by executing them.

Again, activity good, inactivity bad, but this type of behaviour is frustrating to play with casually. Even when I feel like I'm contributing and being fairly active, it seems like it's not enough for everyone and I'm berated for it. Let's just not execute people on the spot because they don't have a bazillion posts, ok?

Torb - just noticed you stating d1 start you're not voting... Interesting

Most likely he's burrowed and can't mechanically vote.

Sooo, you're saying that you think I might be a wolf because I made a play with a negative town outcome to draw spotlight on myself expecting people here to think I'm too smart too be that dumb as a wolf and thereby townread a wolf--rob for it?

Lol there's no way that is a real thought? From my position, that feels quite fabricated... Keeping my vote where it is. Let's say you could vote - would you be voting me right now

That's exactly how I feel too, like I said, anyone else shots N0 and they get lynched D1. I'm not scumreading you hard for it, but I can't townread you for it.

Voting for Sub for now, but the next person on my list would be rob.

rob77dp (2) - Linkcat, serprex
MasterWalks (1) - DoubleCapitals
TheonlyrealBeef (1) - rob77dp
Submachine (1) - Calindu

[kaempfer13]

This reads like a wikiHow, reaction included:

Spoiler for Hidden:

All I hope is MasterWalks doesn't get some blocking ability again and spams it for no reason

I think ian is gaslighting here. He is trying to get me to tunnel on him. People wont believe me if i say to lynch him since they will think its because of this comment. This is sketchy.

How to not have people think you're trying to lynch someone on a grudge.

Step 1: Give any kind of reasoning for your push.
Step 2: If your reasoning is solidly countered, withdraw your push.
Step 3: Don't use words like gaslighting incorrectly.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit

Now I can get to the Devour. Now, when I saw this, I wasn't that surprised that rob went for it, but I still facepalmed because THIS IS NOT MU, ROB. PEOPLE HERE HAVE LIVES. Also, it was Night 0, the least important phase of the game to be active in. He's in college, he could be having finals or something. It's not that uncommon for people to be afk for a couple days here, that's why our modkill system is more lenient than some other places. And, by the way, we have that modkill system for a reason. If you had held off just one Night like a reasonable person, then there would've been no point in killing him Night 1, since he would die anyway, and you would save a powerful ability, unless he had just made like 1 post in which case Devouring him would be justified.

If rob is town, his reasoning is that he was very likely to be an early NK target, so he better use his ability while he can, and there was a reasonable enough target, not realizing that such a move on this forum would draw him a lot of shade and waste time on Day 1 we could be better using to find the mafia. Lucky for him, mafia was actually intelligent and chose a great NK target, going for the group of players right below the juiciest targets.

If rob is mafia, his reasoning is that there is a certain point in the game where vigging a scumread is reasonable enough to not be that sus, and he was very likely to be investigated early on and not get to use his ability, which is a very strong one to have as mafia and not usually one you want to waste early. He would also have to believe that Coffee would actually become active, otherwise his ability would be wasted.

Analysis: Killing inactives with roles is a generally good practice, but rob super jumped the gun on it and its kind of a bad play as either alignment, but worse as town and I expect better play from rob. Slight scum read.

I clearly hinted at my pending action. I can almost guarantee inactivity becomes a magnet for scum to aim at it the inactive is town. If an inactive is scum then they can share by doing nothing. So I essentially vigged the lone inactive. Sadly they were town, but now we can actually work towards solving the game instead of debating a zero poster who was also, I might add, an inactivity modkill a year ago in their prior elements mafia participation. I DID NOT TAKE THE PLANNING OF MY ACTION LIGHTLY. Anyone want to discuss it further I'm game. Voting me ONLY because of that is inane (serp? Care to give your read of me and not just the makes hour?)

How Sub would know we'd both be alive? TMI? I like that observation Link. Care to start a wagon as what develops? I do.

Serp why ian? And 3 vultures - what's the import?

iancudorinmarian (1) - serprex
Sub (1) - rob77dp

No, it's straight up bad advice, which you should have recognized. Stop trying to buddy me.

To those wondering out loud or still to themselves... I think Link is right, I'm still probably within my range as either alignment so far this game. Also struggling to get in a mindset that seems to fit with role madness game type- I'm much more at home vanilla setups.

Need players to post more or have some sort of content to parse and try to read\analyze. Feels like plenty of straw grasping so far.

COULD REALLY USE MORE PLAYERS posting reads of my play so far... Other than www3 dying N0 as town cop it is there most eventful action so far...

Also I think Linkcats conclusion doesnt really make sense. He talks about a certain point of the game when using devour is safe to do as scum (apparently that's immediately), while also giving an equally plausible scenario where rob is town. As mafia doesnt get nk'ed his entire argument hinges on rob being so afraid of being investigated that he expected to get lynched day 1 and thus used his ability on the least valuable target, simply because its the only he could justify (especially considering that these types of things probably are discussed in maf chat, at least one of which should recognize that coffee was likely to get mk'ed anyway thus making robs ability completely useless)?

[Submachine]

I feel like I have much better feel about how players think this time,

Help me out then. I am struggling to put a read on a few reactions.

Reaction 1

LMAO W3 GET FUCKED

TOTALLY WORTH LOSING GN

What the- I am not a big fan off www either, but between "LOL" and "F**K", my reaction was "F**K" when I first saw it.

Reaction 2

inb4 3 vultures this game

But isn't that a good thing?

How Sub would know we'd both be alive? TMI?

Obviously if I die, then you two don't. That was the whole point of my message. (and I did not account to an Otyugh being used right away)

If you were allowed to ask what TP/LO means, I am allowed to ask what TMI means.

[Submachine]

I don't scumread Sub personally, but that could obviously change. He seems like the usual silly Sub.

I'm trying my best here, and people still shrug my plans off as silly. @_@ I keep getting this comment across games.

I think Link is right, I'm still probably within my range as either alignment so far this game. Also struggling to get in a mindset that seems to fit with role madness game type- I'm much more at home vanilla setups.

Is this a confession? This is mindgaming territory; you point out your potential guiltiness to counterpoint that a Mafia would never do that. But by doing this, you acknowledge that you would do things that would not make you seem like mafia if you were mafia, but you would not hesitate to point this out if you were town either, I just, I- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH