Poll

Who played the best mafia?

iancudorinmarian
2 (5.9%)
TheonlyrealBeef
3 (8.8%)
worldwideweb3
5 (14.7%)
Annele
0 (0%)
kaempfer13
1 (2.9%)
Calindu
0 (0%)
Linkcat
1 (2.9%)
moehrpi
0 (0%)
Submachine
13 (38.2%)
serprex
0 (0%)
MasterWalks
0 (0%)
andretimpa
1 (2.9%)
rob77dp
2 (5.9%)
shockcannon
1 (2.9%)
killsdazombies
4 (11.8%)
DoubleCapitals
0 (0%)
Coffeeditto
1 (2.9%)
Ge0metry v2.0
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: June 26, 2020, 09:57:32 pm

*Author

Offline rob77dp

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298909#msg1298909
« Reply #1836 on: June 06, 2020, 12:27:23 pm »
MW I know you targeted same person i did last night. Can you confirm my report as I rolled the same role for past night as what you've claimed previously and I know you visited same person I did last night.

shock went to Ge0.
Sub went to shock.
MW went to shock.
I went to shock.
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298910#msg1298910
« Reply #1837 on: June 06, 2020, 01:54:44 pm »
Hey Sub

ROLECLAIM!
Okay, geez, calm down with the caps. It is time to reveal my role now.~

Drumroll, please!

Spoiler for Hidden:


Yes, I am Dragonfly. Not an Angel as serprex suspected.

Here is my action history:
  • N0: shockcannon
  • N1: Linkcat
  • N2: TheonlyrealBeef
  • N3: shockcannon
I have proper crumbs for all these actions. Let's go in order.~



Night 0: I could not put a read on shock, so I wanted to know what's up with him. He mentioned he has a plan with kaempfer, so I expected at least some traffic there. (Quick note: Each night, I tried to avoid targets that would give back no results, as those would be wasted nights.)

> shockcannon targeted kaempfer, nobody targeted shock.

The result was a bit disappointing, but later things got complicated.

TOWN READS (in order of most town read to least town read)
shockcannon- My role gives me insight that he is town
Hmmm......

(No, Sub, this is not the time for softing either. Get it together.)

In case MW is Town, I make no comment here. Even though I am very tempted.
Now I can reveal that the comment I wanted to make and what made me suspect MW is that I KNEW he did not target shock with his role, because I would have seen it. I wanted to call him out so badly for getting caught in a lie, but in case MW was a Dragonfly/FFQ on kaempfer, I did not reveal. I also softed at the quality of my role here, because to have any doubts about MW's targets, I could only have an information role.

MW's comment mighty confused me, because neither Dragonfly nor FFQ can clear primary alignments, but he was very sure that shock and kaempfer are town. Let it be said, that at this point of the game, I thought MW was acting very scummy.

Spoiler for Retrospect:
In retrospect, we now know that MW was making baseless assumptions and presented them as facts. But at that time, I didn't know that.

I remember having a theory, that maybe shock was Guardian Angel targeting Kaempfer on Night 0, drawing Kaempfer in towny shades, to attract a nightkill onto him. I also believed that MW might have been FFQ, and he saw Guardian Angel in the combo, which made him believe it was a town-town interaction.



Night 1: Linkcat's night plan involved Dragonflies targeting him, so I did.

> Linkcat targeted DoubleCapitals, MasterWalks targeted Linkcat.

Insert drama here about MW heavily wanting to know about 4 people's scumreads (, just because he saw one of them targeting someone, but this is in hindsight). By the time I caught up with the new posts, MW had already revealed he wanted my reads. This development could have only been because of night actions, and I knew who MW targeted, and I quickly put it together that he must be Dragonfly, because that is the only role that gives specific player names.

At this point, it became clear to me that MW is very much in the dark about how to use his role. He was aggressive, so I assumed he believed I did something harmful to Linkcat and wanted to call me out on it. I was getting excited about finally knowing something after a long streak of confusion, and I was ready to deflect any crazy accusations MW might hurl at me, so I eagerly gave him my readlist.

My readlist at that point contained MW as v, because MW was so in the dark that it screamed town to me. He was similarly in the dark in Mafia 70, where he was town.

This is all fair and good, but where was this action breadcrumbed? In my analysis of MW:

11. MasterWalks: I would have said n- at first, because of some questions I had about him, but I get it now. The way he makes his plays, he's like a mirror of myself from my early days. Without revealing why, I think he leans v. I am very much looking forward to why he wanted my readlist so badly.
I wonder why nobody questioned why MW's playstyle is a mirror of my own. It is not true. Here I hinted that because of the plays MW made, I know he has the same role as I do. And this is not much a statement about MW's role as it is a statement about my own. This is a direct crumb that I am Dragonfly, and that I think MW is Dragonfly too.

After I have already placed my crumb, MW hardclaimed Dragonfly.



Night 2: A plan was formulating about making kaempfer immaterial, by endowing TorB's ability. I wanted to make sure nobody tampers with the night plans, so I decided to check kae or TorB that night. I hoped MW would target kae, so I targeted TorB.

> TheonlyrealBeef targeted noone, he was targeted by kaempfer13.

This was the least useful night of all for me. But before the night, things were theorized about which roles should target who.

Also lol @ link's nightplan having Heal target the next day's lynch as if he's better NK than either dejas. Or maybe it was mindgames & Sub's silly enough to not realize. Sucker never saw it coming
Idea: sub & cal target kaempfer, kaempfer targets torb. DC can live another day
It was around this point that I realized serprex might believe I am Guardian Angel. Instead of blurting out that "HEy guys! I am not Guardian Angel", I tried to vaguely point serprex in the right direction.

Idea: sub & cal target kaempfer, kaempfer targets torb.
I don't think I have the role you think I have. If I can even use my role tonight, I try to pick someone that makes the most sense.

Yes, with one exception: I don't think kaempfer13 needs a second opinion on his health check.
I do believe kaempfer might need a second opinion on health check if the opportunity gives itself. I do not want anyone to rush to false conclusions about who has what role.

And after the night settled, I came out with my usual crumbing.~

with how things played out I think mafia lack disruptive skills & anubis was on cooldown
This is the only real solution I can think of too.
With this crumb, I not only confirm that I did not see any disruption during the night, but I also use the specific words "The only real" after each other, because I targeted TheonlyrealBeef.



Night 3: There was a disturbance in the Force, as all THREE Dragonflies felt drawnt towards shock that night.

> shockcannon targeted Ge0metry v1.2, rob77dp and MasterWalks targeted shockcannon.

Somewhere earlier, I remembered rob saying the word "SHOCKing" weirdly, so I looked back his posts and asked him if his crumbed action went smoothly and what he learned from it. I was very excited that maybe rob found something relevant about shock (by Golden Nymph or Psion). I almost blurted out everything I saw at night in an MW fashion, but looking back, I managed to compose myself.

I think I have a minor revelation... [...] Sadly I think MW and I crossed streams last night.
I think you think the same thing as I am thinking. Third time's the charm, eh?
Here I wanted to crumb that I know MW targeted him. "Third time's the charm" was also a hint at three people targeting the same person.



A lot of stuff, eh? If this doesn't convince you that I am not an Anubis or a Guardian Angel, then I don't know what will.
And we keep driving into the night
It's a late goodbye, such a late goodbye...

~ Platinum Quest ~

Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298911#msg1298911
« Reply #1838 on: June 06, 2020, 02:41:14 pm »
Reading back early wagons, rob started Day 1 by voting on me.

How Sub would know we'd both be alive? TMI? I like that observation Link. Care to start a wagon as what develops? I do.

iancudorinmarian (1) - serprex
Sub (1) - rob77dp
Then for some reason, he switched away, but after I got 2 other votes, he came back for me.

rob77dp (1) - Linkcat
MasterWalks (1) - DoubleCapitals
Submachine (3) - Calindu, serprex, rob77dp
It would be quite reckless for two mafias to vote on each other right away. It does not give towncred, and it just allows the train to get going.

This is in case rob really is mafia, to clarify that we are not w/w.
And we keep driving into the night
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298912#msg1298912
« Reply #1839 on: June 06, 2020, 02:53:27 pm »
Someone react to my posts please. I spent quite some time collecting the appropriate quotes and crumbs. I don't want it to go to waste.
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Offline shockcannon

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298913#msg1298913
« Reply #1840 on: June 06, 2020, 03:26:03 pm »
either rob or I have to be mafia. So if you're still convinced rob is town, then lynch me and then come back to this post and read again for the answers to this game.
That's a difficult fight to pick. If you are so sure that kaempfer and I are also mafia, you would be picking one of us instead of rob. Shock's train of thought feels like he bases our alignments on his read on rob. So I have to ask,

@shock: In case rob is actually town, do you still hold strongly to your other two mafia picks? If so, then why are you not pushing us instead of rob? We have so much more dirt than rob, you could easily get away with it. (Quick note: I would hate to protect rob if he was actually mafia here, but in case he is town, I would rather sacrifice myself to prove shock wrong, because I deem myself less useful for town's cause than rob.)

There is mafia Anubis in this game (could be fate egg Anubis). That's a fact. Mechanically I've narrowed it down to rob. So the only way rob can be town is if I'm lying about one of my night actions that led me to realize that rob has to be the Anubis. Which is why I state that either rob is mafia, or I lied because I'm mafia. Like I said, I'm not doing any bluffing anymore. I did it once for kaempf to get the info I needed and that's it.

Additionally, I said you're the one mafia who could be replaced by Ge0. I'm pushing rob because he's the one I know to be mafia for sure. Why would I push you or kaempf when I mechanically solved rob. Why do you keep trying to undermine my perfectly fine logic? It's as if you want others to see non-existent loopholes in my plan by pretending there are loopholes. Kind of sus.

Is my kaempf read based largely on rob being mafia? Yes. Is that unreasonable when I MECHANICALLY SOLVED ROB AS MAFIA? No. If you look at day 2 interactions like I pointed out, rob made a pretty obvious yet subtle move to try and save kaempf from lynch.



Also, to respond to a later post, you are correct. I didn't always know kaempf was mafia and for a time he played well enough to make me think he's town. The reason I chose to save him and lynch Linkcat was because Linkcat played this game quite poorly and there was a lot to gain by lynching him instead of kaempf. First off, Linkcat was a much bigger mafia read for me. Second, for some odd reason, submachine, torb, doublecapitals, and rob were all SO CONVINCED that Linkcat was town simply based of what his posts sound like. Do you know how suspicious that is especially when we've only had 1 night of actions so far and golden nymph being dead? Third, let's look at what Linkcat actually did:

- he put ian at the top of his town read list
- he randomly kills DC just because he hasn't contributed much
- he tunnels Annele who I have stated from day 1 is town due to voting patterns (without even knowing any mafia were, it was still obvious)
- he refuses to vote rob even to safe himself


Like how can I not choose to save kaempf, who I still think could be town, and choose to lynch Linkcat instead who has acted scummy the entire game and had 4 other players who have been overly defending him? I see nothing wrong with my actions as a town player who is in the dark after only two days. And now that roles have been revealed and rob is stuck as the only Anubis, everything became clear. That's why I needed info about you, andre, and Ge0 before I made my post. I needed to make sure Ge0 wasn't lying and I needed and least you and andre to claim something that I can check in a following night so I could go ahead with my reasoning for why rob is mafia Anubis with confidence.


@submachine
I'm very very confident that rob is mafia, and kaempf is following close behind. Now for the last mafia, I'm fairly certain it's you but I can see a world where it's Ge0 instead and I am open to hearing ideas on that. However, if you refuse to accept that either myself or rob has to be mafia, I can't town read you and I'm going to assume my initial thoughts were spot on. If you're going to be methodical and logical in your posts you can't abandon that when looking at mine, otherwise you give yourself away as mafia. If you want any benefit of the doubt that you could be town, you need to start accepting that there is 1 mafia between me and rob.

Honestly though, I think you're just kind of checkmated here. I'm like 90% sure you're mafia which really gives you two lines of play here:

1.) Continue deflecting that fact that if I'm town, then from my respective rob is 100% mafia and keep asking me questions like "well what will you do if rob is town" do get other readers to believe there's a chance that rob and I are both town. In doing so, you will pretty much give away for certain to me that the mafia team does include you as well as rob, but your hopes are to convince enough other afk town to believe you.

2.) Bus rob and hope I can believe you're town and that Ge0 is mafia instead. In which case, we still have enough town left to afford one mislynch on Ge0. But we're saving that lynch for last. rob goes today, or we get back to scenario 1.


Oh and btw, if we don't lynch either rob or myself today, I'm going to consider you 100% mafia.



You are what you eat from your head to your feet

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298914#msg1298914
« Reply #1841 on: June 06, 2020, 03:33:23 pm »
Ge0metry v1.2 (1) - kaempfer13
rob77dp (1) - shockcannon



Btw, for any other town out there reading my posts, which I hope you are, kaempfer's vote on Ge0 and stating that Ge0 is his only mafia read, pretty much gives away Submachine as the 3rd mafia member alongside kaempf and rob. If we flip rob and he's turn mafia, we have our win. If he flips town, y
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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298915#msg1298915
« Reply #1842 on: June 06, 2020, 03:34:51 pm »
Ge0metry v1.2 (1) - kaempfer13
rob77dp (1) - shockcannon



Btw, for any other town out there reading my posts, which I hope you are, kaempfer's vote on Ge0 and stating that Ge0 is his only mafia read, pretty much gives away Submachine as the 3rd mafia member alongside kaempf and rob. If we flip rob and he's turn mafia, we have our win. If he flips town, y
Edited:

If he flips town, you know I'm mafia. I'm also more than welcome to do it reverse since I know most of you probably trust rob more than me for some crazy reason.
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298916#msg1298916
« Reply #1843 on: June 06, 2020, 04:11:53 pm »
if you refuse to accept that either myself or rob has to be mafia, I can't town read you and I'm going to assume my initial thoughts were spot on.
That's a condition that has not been said. Admittedly, I targeted you last night, because I suspected you would be the Anubis, so I wanted to catch you doing something scummy. ;)

I am considering all options between you and rob. (Except w/w, because that would be stupid.) This just shows that I do read your posts, because I did not immediately vote on you. I admit you raised good points, but as even you pointed out, it is still possible you are the mafia.

I lean towards you being mafia over rob, but you confuse me with your townie traits of solving, making plans, and making 90% bad calls.



This is the last vote tally.

Linkcat (6) - shockcannon, Calindu, kaempfer13, serprex, TheonlyrealBeef, Killsdazombies

shock and kaempfer are vouching for each other (well, only kae was "cleared" by shock, but noone cleared shock), and serp is Vujatron, so my new top 3 scumreads are Calindu, TorB, and kdz.
Looking back at the final votes on Linkcat, my reads are now outdated. If only serprex and TorB are mech confirmed, and kdz is GN who helped find a mafia, then I think 1-2 mafia hides among shock, Calindu, and kaempfer.



I would really like if other people were talking too, not just us involved.

@MW: I gave you my role, and reasons behind my actions.
@andre: Any comment about your role?
@rob: You were also asking about my role.
@Annele: Anything.

Kdz said he will come later. Others can come too.~
And we keep driving into the night
It's a late goodbye, such a late goodbye...

~ Platinum Quest ~

Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298917#msg1298917
« Reply #1844 on: June 06, 2020, 05:27:14 pm »
oof, this is what it must have sounded like listening to me on day 2 for most people. Short of including kdz, mw or people not in the game he couldn't have picked a team that sounds more absurd to me. It is true however that the person that successfully targeted serp n1 must be within shock, rob and andre unless someone made a really daring fakeclaim.

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298918#msg1298918
« Reply #1845 on: June 06, 2020, 05:52:01 pm »
I need a second to reread everything here (While i've been crippled in bed ive been reading up, but its hard to follow super well on a phone) but I'll say this. In our current world, our two least risky lynches are rob and Annele. They are the only two with the capacity to be offensive if I am correct. Again, we can make a mistake here.

However a few interesting points. I have been vocal af about my distrust of Rob, and I can't tell if shock is just playing off of that to get a town lynch in, or I was right all along. Shock creates a world that I don't really want to vote on, but DC fell through and my confidence in geo has been shaken a bit.

At the moment, the only person I have total confidence in is MW, but I dont think MW can offer a ton of insight, unless he has targeted rob/sub/shock sometime other than tonight. (Didn't MW target Kae on n0?)

We've seen sub with a nonoffensive role given by his target of shock last night, the only role without a use yet is Timpa. Further, no one else has claimed to be immaterial'd since n1 when serp got hit. So it has to be rob or shock or timpa.

So our offensive threats are in Rob (Potentially)/Annele/Shock (If they lied, and if fate egg roles is like it could for rob)

and our anubis threat is in Rob/Shock/Timpa

Also I admit I'm partial to believing shock, because I've done this in mafia games before. The grand design, hinting at it. Being a little shitposter all game. Its like someone read my mind of what I would do as town.

Now onto Timpa. We see Ian pick Timpa over Linkcat in

andretimpa (6) - Calindu, moehrpi, Submachine, Linkcat, rob77dp, iancudorinmarian
Linkcat (5) - Annele, kaempfer13, MasterWalks, serprex, shockcannon
Annele (1) - Ge0metry

Fine by me.

this post. This was with intent. We know ian is mafia, and we know link was town. I don't really believe we live in a world where ian tried to murder their own mafia mate, especially when there was such an easy town kill right there up for grabs. I'd love to know timpas roll, but I dont think its necessary right now.

So this is all previously known info. I'm going to sift over the new info and see what else I can build from these new materials. Sorry Ive been inactive over the last night and today, my mental health has been killing me lately, but i'll find some drive to get this day phase rolling from a perspective that isn't the accused or accusing.

THAT BEING SAID ANNELE, MW, TIMPA AND CALI SHOULD PROBABLY POST SOMETHING TOO.

Timpa has posted a bit, which will be invaluable, but cali and annele ya'll pls.

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298919#msg1298919
« Reply #1846 on: June 06, 2020, 05:53:16 pm »
EBWOP I forgot to include shock in the first sentence of risky folk, theyre included when i circle back later, but there is a world where shock is lying and is fate egg, I didn't mean to dismiss that reality.

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Re: Elements Mafia 73 - by PlayerOa https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67825.msg1298920#msg1298920
« Reply #1847 on: June 06, 2020, 06:27:44 pm »
I got nothing to say.
I played my part yesterday by forcing you to say you actually found a mafia. Weird of you to not just say it. We were down to no mafia kills and many town kills and you thought it was best to make ian admit it? What if you didnt roll GN and instead, threw iancu under the bus?

Really tho, i already announced my findings last night. I targetted shock and found rob and sub targetted him as well. This has been announced several times now.
My scum reads are really down to i think everyone is scum except me.
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