Elements Mafia 72 - by Ginyu

[Espithel]

What info would you have gotten from my lynch considering the other vote option was town too so maf didn’t have to protect anyone, it’s like those lynch trains at the start last mafia where all the lynch options were townies q.q

We would've known you were town?

And how would that have helped q.q lynching town to confirm town isn’t best strat

Moderator Comment

No personal attacks.

[worldwideweb3]

What info would you have gotten from my lynch considering the other vote option was town too so maf didn’t have to protect anyone, it’s like those lynch trains at the start last mafia where all the lynch options were townies q.q

We would've known you were town?

And how would that have helped q.q lynching town to confirm town isn’t best strat

Moderator Comment

No personal attacks.

I’m full of surprises

[kaempfer13]

Depending on the deleted insults and several other posts I feel like espithel is serious this time. Would have been nice to still be able to read his insults to see if anything about them sounds fake. Slight townread.

[worldwideweb3]

Oh I didn’t take it as an insult, just a game and all dw kinkylinky

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Depending on the deleted insults and several other posts I feel like espithel is serious this time. Would have been nice to still be able to read his insults to see if anything about them sounds fake. Slight townread.

Let's just say he found w3 to be less than genius.

[Submachine]

Chunk 2: Deadline Voting

In the last mafia, one of the best ways to let the town eat themselves was to not really contribute much, and then wait for the clock to run out, and then have so many major decisions of that day happen at that point.
It removes the town's ability to rationally think through their decisions, and the "we have to lynch" mentality, while true, massively compounds this problem.

In addition, it's not fair to people who aren't around during deadline.
Their contribution to what happened has been silenced, because they weren't here. This strategy has been demonstrated not to work in the past mafia. Why are we still doing it?

Everyone should cast their vote before deadline. How do we enforce this?

The best solution would be if everyone could be here on deadline, but I doubt that's possible.

What we should do is break ties, pressure the inactives and share necessary information as early as possible. This also requires to stop joke voting and cast our serious votes as early as possible.

Question: Are placeholder votes or late votes worse?

[PlayerOa]

Chunk 2: Deadline Voting

In the last mafia, one of the best ways to let the town eat themselves was to not really contribute much, and then wait for the clock to run out, and then have so many major decisions of that day happen at that point.
It removes the town's ability to rationally think through their decisions, and the "we have to lynch" mentality, while true, massively compounds this problem.

In addition, it's not fair to people who aren't around during deadline.
Their contribution to what happened has been silenced, because they weren't here. This strategy has been demonstrated not to work in the past mafia. Why are we still doing it?

Everyone should cast their vote before deadline. How do we enforce this?

The best solution would be if everyone could be here on deadline, but I doubt that's possible.

What we should do is break ties, pressure the inactives and share necessary information as early as possible. This also requires to stop joke voting and cast our serious votes as early as possible.

Question: Are placeholder votes or late votes worse?

As long as the placeholder votes hold any form of substance - late votes.

[Submachine]

Early pressure on the inactives: Insig is sitting on 3 non-serious posts while Naii also has 3 posts.

Calindu is a clever person, I also want him to join more in the discussions. In case he is mafia, we need him to post more so that he can slip up.

[kaempfer13]

Readlist (in order of names at the top):

Spoiler for Naii:

everything he does is pretty Nai and its very little. A fair enough inactivity lynch, but I found nothing that moves the needle either way.

Spoiler for weeaboo:

If we got nothing better to do he's the top inactivity lynch. Absolutely nothing usefull here.

Spoiler for Annele:

What she says is sound and comes from someone who struggles to keep up with the thread. I need more but I wouldnt lynch her any time soon with the current information.

Spoiler for Calindu:

Agree with everything he said so far. he doesnt go the extramile, but ill give an n+ for now.

Spoiler for dawn to dusk:

I see no inconsistency with his behavior last time, even if the jokes arent exactly helpfull. he explained his inactivity with sleep schedule and he was also busy being about to die in puzzle plight as well (and he really wasnt that inactive after all, just had awkward easily explainable timing for being offline). The pushes on him seem to be part joke, part taking offense in him making jokes, part people thinking he was inactive and then not removing their vote in some time (also people remembering him being voted up and just voting him for that reason)? I see no reason to go for him, but I think we should look at the people that voted him (depending on timeframe voting him can speak for either alignement).

Spoiler for Ginyu:

decently active and makes sure we dont missunderstand the rules. Townread. Just kidding.

Spoiler for vagman13:

He wrote a fair bit of things, but i can't form a read out of them.

Spoiler for shockcannon:

Ah shit, here we go. i probably have the best shot at reading him so i shouldn't half-ass this. I think he's exactly officer or mafia. Him mentioning me as his primeread as both mafia and town, does seem like a telegraph of having used observe and awaiting results of investigate (I don't believe he actually targeted me btw).
I also cryptically mentioned that wanting a no lynch is ironically towny for him, since its consistent with his mindset from last game. He thinks lynching town is always a mistake and doesnt acknowledge the info we get out of a flip that people voted for (and the wagon they didnt vote for).
I have yet to decipher his final post (isnt that against the rules?).
Everything else he said would be kinda scummy if he were anyone else, but its mostly the things he didnt say that make him sus (why so out of character man? obv bc hes officer or mafia)

Spoiler for PlayerOa:

Most of the things he said seem to try and help town. i especially like his stance in voting, not killing of dawn in absence and not no-lynching.

Spoiler for Mobian:

huh, I didnt realize he posted as much as he did, his posts are kinda forgettable. I'm a little surprised by him wanting mw on his mafia team? cant really make anything out of that either though. there are some usefull things he did like getting people to vote. I'll stick to null here.

Spoiler for MasterWalks:

He wears his heart on his sleeve. Honestly, the mere fact that he doesn't seem to follow an agenda is enough for me to townread him. He finds everything people say suspicious so dont put too much weight on his reads.

Spoiler for TorB:

The most suspicious thing about him is that he seems to good for a first time player lol. I like everything he says.

Spoiler for iancudorinmarian:

Don't like the sheer volume of completely random votes. is he testing if anyone bites?
Said he was confirmable by gunsmith. agreed on sub being town fast.
said he missunderstood whisperer as its own secondary role. could be an act though. agree on his early stance on optimal play for officer. Yes, I read his posts backwards. and my read in total is null.

I wanted to make a complete list, but I ran out of breath and food. will finish this later. Linkcat and w3 are important to have a closer look on, espi and sub are leantown to me.

[Calindu]

Calindu is a clever person, I also want him to join more in the discussions. In case he is mafia, we need him to post more so that he can slip up.

I'm following the discussion closely and contributed whenever I had time to actually write down a post and felt I had something to actually add. I must admit I was more engaged in discussions last game, but that was because I was more comfortable with the chat discussions, as I might not be the best at expressing my thoughts in long posts.

As for my thoughts on current topics:
- I highly doubt shock is mafia, as he could have easily let www3 get lynched, to save himself, but instead, he heavily pushed for the no lynch option.
- No lynch might make sense for mafia shock if www3 is also mafia, but they both pushed each other late into the round, despite other options being available.
- I am not 100% sold on shock being Officer, even if he is town. He lied last game about being GN too, so it is possible he lied again.

- I don't like kae's idea of roles with no weapons to claim they have no weapons, we have no idea if we even have a Gunsmith and if everyone is telling the truth, it makes the potential pool of players the officer can be in smaller. If it can be proven that shock is officer, then I agree that it can work.

- I don't hate the late votes, as I can reliably be online at the deadline, it happened last mafia too and most of the players that did it flipped town, but I see why some others might not like them.
- Placeholders votes are fine in my eyes, it is easier to keep the tally of who voted and where, and creates pressure.

[worldwideweb3]

"but I think we should look at the people that voted him"
Kae, you are assuming that dawn is town and one of either shock or me is mafia. I would more look at people staying on shock despite him claiming officer. (Yes, shock is probably town and not officer but a town would defo move his vote away from shock considering its so early, while a maf would use previous mafia's reasoning to keep their vote on shock imo).
Annele was not online during eod and vag probably wasn't paying much attention knowing him, i wouldn't read too much into them.
Oa and mobian tho are interesting. Both stayed on shock and only moved their votes on me when there was a no lynch threat.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Chunk 2: Deadline Voting

In the last mafia, one of the best ways to let the town eat themselves was to not really contribute much, and then wait for the clock to run out, and then have so many major decisions of that day happen at that point.
It removes the town's ability to rationally think through their decisions, and the "we have to lynch" mentality, while true, massively compounds this problem.

In addition, it's not fair to people who aren't around during deadline.
Their contribution to what happened has been silenced, because they weren't here. This strategy has been demonstrated not to work in the past mafia. Why are we still doing it?

Everyone should cast their vote before deadline. How do we enforce this?

The best solution would be if everyone could be here on deadline, but I doubt that's possible.

What we should do is break ties, pressure the inactives and share necessary information as early as possible. This also requires to stop joke voting and cast our serious votes as early as possible.

Question: Are placeholder votes or late votes worse?

You are kind of missing his point that these deadline votes cannot be thought out as well when you switch votes around near deadline. In one of the voting overtimes, w3 had a majority vote of 1 over no lynch and shock, this is when I switched no lynch. I did not think about the benefit of learning w3 is town. All I could think of at that moment, that if w3 was town, I would be the one that started a lynch train and sat back when I had the power to save him.

You do not have time to look at the bigger picture and see how lynching someone whom may well be town, could help get reads on other people. So please, do not do this after deadline again. 1-2 hours before deadline works just as well, yes? That also happens when I get home from work, so there is my reason for having the most thought out posts around those times on weekdays.

In short: avoid switching this close to -let alone after- deadline when you can. Mafia does not need to think about whom to lynch, they will only know whom not to lynch. Town benefits from reason and logic, which should not be rushed.