Elements Mafia 72 - by Ginyu

[worldwideweb3]

Considering shocks initial post, his target was likely kaempfer13.

Can we no lynch?

It has been beaten into my head that no lynch is never a good town play, so it's unlikely.

That is what I had been hearing, so I dared not advocate for it, but... honestly? My best scum read was w3 just being his usual self, which is not much to go on. Just because it is protocol, does not mean I actually believe it to be the right move.

OPTIONS!

1a. Shock finishes observing his Night 0 target.
1b. Shock uses Raid on someone completely different.

2a. Doctor protects him. Next Night he dies. Safe, but only clears 1 person.
2b. We just SUGGEST that the Doctor protects him, but the Doctor miiight not protect him this Night. Then shock uses Raid next Night while he is ACTUALLY protected.

Second is risky, but doubles our net gain. It introduces an uncertainty for Mafia. They risk wasting a Nightkill if he is actually protected this Night.

Guard appears to be the easiest way for mafia to interrupt shock, and cannot be blocked directly. It will even open him up for a nightkill since he cannot be targeted by other abilities, and protective abilities are lower priority.

@Ginyu
For Haunt I would like clarification: it mentions up to two, is it not exactly two targets?
Furthermore, is mafia allowed to target one of their own members to get a guaranteed second confirm?

The latter would mean shock could be permanently blocked by haunt even this night.

@Ginyu not sure if this got answered

[Ginyu]

Haunt (ER): Target up to two players and guess their secondary roles. If you are right with all of those, they have their secondary roles removed permanently. If you guess wrong for at least one of those players, this ability as well as the nightkill will fail. This ability can't be blocked and can only be tracked by a Paranormal Scientist, but the Whisperer using it makes noise.

"Up to two players" means one or two. They can target anyone except the user, so Whisperers can haunt each other if they please.
Also, I want to highlight the "removes permanently" part. While haunted players still reveal their former secondary role upon death, those will not be active anymore and thus cannot be digged up or robbed.

[Linkcat]

Wtf guys, pls

[kaempfer13]

Now heres a thing I've been wondering for a while:
Should all permanently weaponless villagers soft claim not carrying a weapon? Gunsmith would check from the pool of those people for weapons and state if they find a weapon (they might want to wait with this). if you lie about that you are considered scum and will be lynched, otherwise you will be exempt from lynches.
The following roles never carry a weapon:
mech engineer,
drug dealer,
doctor,
para doctor,
security guard (surprisingly not mentioned in gunsmiths ability),
friendly neighbor and
musician
(robber and undertaker sometimes carry weapons and thus shouldnt claim here I think)

If we agree on this, all roles in question shall write "My role never carries a weapon as a villager"

Thoughts?

[MasterWalks]

You know kaempf, I think you're actually a lot more like me than you realize. The difference is you let others influence you too much. That's your weakness.

This voting phase went awfully and i might be part of the problem.
Sorry

Don't be sorry. You're always part of the problem kaempf, but you must learn to embrace it. Harness the power of chaos. Let it flow through your veins and fill your lungs. Reach out and take control of your inner strength. The others are trying to hold you back. They don't want you to know your potential. Don't let them hold you back. Take what's yours. Listen to your own voice. Let it guide your inner . You think you're binded by . Your past and future are connected. But that's just a lie you tell yourself. Change is real. Let it happen. Let your past burn in the and rise from the ashes, a new creation. I can feel it coming. You just have to reach out your hand. Trust me, no, trust yourself! Rise up and attack! Burn the others to the ground with your might! You're so close. No one can stop you. So don't stop yourself.

I think shock has a hidden message here.

  Main card in entropy is Mutation
  Main card in time is Anubis
  this is Fire

maf is short for Mafia. Shock is mafia.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Haunt (ER): Target up to two players and guess their secondary roles. If you are right with all of those, they have their secondary roles removed permanently. If you guess wrong for at least one of those players, this ability as well as the nightkill will fail. This ability can't be blocked and can only be tracked by a Paranormal Scientist, but the Whisperer using it makes noise.

"Up to two players" means one or two. They can target anyone except the user, so Whisperers can haunt each other if they please.
Also, I want to highlight the "removes permanently" part. While haunted players still reveal their former secondary role upon death, those will not be active anymore and thus cannot be digged up or robbed.

In other words, mafia only need one target and get one role right if they want to use it. Much safer than the guess two get two right I was hoping for.

However, this requires shock to both not be mafia and mafia to trust his claim, otherwise the one haunting will make sound.

If we agree on this, all roles in question shall write "My role never carries a weapon as a villager"

Thoughts?

This comes down to how much you trust shock. If all town is telling the truth, but shock is lying scum, you just drastically reduced the pool of potential officers for mafia. Short term, weapon claims strongly benefit mafia. Do we even have town gunsmiths? Probably.

[MasterWalks]

Ok TORB said i was unhelpful with a mancrush on shock. Shock is str8 ballin so i wont deny the mancrush but I cant really be more helpful at this moment.
Here is all the info i can give aside from a role claim.

I did not use my ability N0, i wanted to have a good target first. I used it tonight.

As for reads, I dont have much. Sub and w3 stand out as the most scummy. Espi and Linkcat are naturally scummy. kaempfer seems off compared to previous games but i think you can attribute that to him being more comfortable with mafia since this is his second game. I cant say i have a scum read on TORB or ian but i think they are worth watching closely. They seem active enough yet not too controversial. they could pass as mafia but i wouldnt put money on it. Shock and insig are acting normal but also worth watching. Nobody else has really stood out to me.

You literally listed all the high active ones as scums...

Aggro mafia is a thing. I doubt all the maf are lying low.

If we agree on this, all roles in question shall write "My role never carries a weapon as a villager"
Thoughts?

I dont think this is a good idea. TORB is right, it really only helps mafia and lying about it is too easy. I would bet even town would lie just to not give away role.

(About ian)
All of his random vote switching. Why would you switch from voting on me, to MW, on this reasoning, then going on to vote on dawn, and then switching back to me (and when he finally switched to me, he made it into a tie of 5-5 and he hates no lynch). Also, at the start, scum reading sub then not even voting on him, then randomly town reading him and voting on link because "24 hour night phases". Basically, putting a lot of lynch options out there and not going on any very strongly, hoping somebody would bandwagon on one.

I agree with this. ian is pretty scummy and should be investigated.

[Linkcat]

[InsignificantWeeaboo]

You know kaempf, I think you're actually a lot more like me than you realize. The difference is you let others influence you too much. That's your weakness.

This voting phase went awfully and i might be part of the problem.
Sorry

Don't be sorry. You're always part of the problem kaempf, but you must learn to embrace it. Harness the power of chaos. Let it flow through your veins and fill your lungs. Reach out and take control of your inner strength. The others are trying to hold you back. They don't want you to know your potential. Don't let them hold you back. Take what's yours. Listen to your own voice. Let it guide your inner . You think you're binded by . Your past and future are connected. But that's just a lie you tell yourself. Change is real. Let it happen. Let your past burn in the and rise from the ashes, a new creation. I can feel it coming. You just have to reach out your hand. Trust me, no, trust yourself! Rise up and attack! Burn the others to the ground with your might! You're so close. No one can stop you. So don't stop yourself.

I think shock has a hidden message here.

  Main card in entropy is Mutation
  Main card in time is Anubis
  this is Fire

maf is short for Mafia. Shock is mafia.

main card in time is either Rewind Time or Ghost of the Past what

[Espithel]

Wtf guys, pls

Is that it?

Just a "wat"?

You disappoint me.

[Linkcat]

Things I've decided I don't like:

- Shock claiming he has a weapon and being taken seriously despite the fact he's been outed as a wild liar last game

- Mobian throwing shade at me and then never following through with it

- Web's general existence

- Dawn and Link being wonky with each other

- Naii sorta posting but not really

- Link doing this:

shockcannon (1) - Annele
dawn to dusk (2) - PlayerOa, Submachine
worldwideweb3 (2) - iancudorinmarian, MasterWalks
TheonlyrealBeef (1) - Espithel
Espithel (1) - Mobian
Mobian (1) -worldwideweb3
PlayerOa (1) - Linkcat

How does dawn removing his vote make you want to remove your vote from Dawn?

- Insig not being retarded yet

- Web not explaining his Mobian vote




If I missed anything, do tell me. You know what I don't like more than I do, after all.

That was clearly a joke vote, I moved back to dawn, which put him at 3 votes with everyone else at 1. It's notable that the next two posts immediately brought other people to 2 votes with the explanation of pressuring inactives. Looks bad on Torb and vag if dawn flips mafia. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-games/elements-mafia-72-by-ginyu/msg1291768/#msg1291768

[Linkcat]

So, for the grand summary of my current reads, in order of most to least posts:

Spoiler for reads:

Spoiler for Submachine:

Slightly town, and mostly because:

I already told you: Gunsmith = instant confirm. If Town can avoid killing me, it will be useful. Otherwise it’s a waste.

Somewhere far away, Mafia is typing it next to my name that I have a non-weapon role.

Combined with a lot of discussion.

I really did not like the plan and what followed, but I guess you do not need to be mafia to come up with such a plan. Probably.

Spoiler for worldwideweb3:

Scum read. First, he goes full shitposting. Then, when people start pressuring him, he comes up with this post:

LOL here we go again. you wil regret killing me, if it comes to that. Theres no point in me answering those qs because those answers mean nothing to you. i know what i was looking for, you dont. If you have any of your own qs you wanna ask, go for it as i said.

Until finally giving an answer only to the most basic questions.
Combine this with:

There are legit benefits for mafia to have these questions answered.

w3 helped derail town with a discussion that benefits mafia, then does not follow it up with the conclusion that is supposed to help town.

And let us not forget about:

Its N0. can we stop posting so much? kthnx.

More posting/discussion = good.

Right now, w3 is not helpful to town at all.

Spoiler for kaempfer13:

Town. Generally helpful for town and non-controversial. He does not even have a single person trying to lynch him.

Spoiler for Espithel:

Neutral. Active in discussions, it's useful to have him around for an "interesting" perspective regardless of whether he is mafia. I cannot possibly think of him as town, as long as he is voting on the only person I can confirm as town to get lynched, however.

Spoiler for Linkcat:

Slightly scummy. Shitposts everywhere, barely anything useful for town. One particular post is of interest:

shockcannon (1) - Annele
dawn to dusk (3) - PlayerOa, Submachine, Linkcat
worldwideweb3 (1) - MasterWalks
TheonlyrealBeef (1) - Espithel
Espithel (1) - Mobian
Mobian (1) - worldwideweb3
MasterWalks (1) - iancudorinmarian
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Calindu

Just because.

Switching to dawn, causing a +2 majority on lynch count. This is really scummy to do for no reason, and will not be forgiven if dawn flips town. But this is Linkcat, so if dawn is mafia, he might actually have a really good reason for this, that he's not telling to protect his own identity.

Spoiler for iancudorinmarian:

Neutral. Funny posts, but nothing revealing or controversial.

Spoiler for MasterWalks:

Slightly scum. Generally unhelpful with a mancrush for shock.

What exactly can you plan to gain from pressuring shock with a vote? Intel? He aint going to give you intel lmao. Hes not useful until late game and he would just mindgame you and give you the run-around until you inevitably give up.

Spoiler for TheonlyrealBeef:

Town.

Spoiler for rest:

Neutral. Do not add much to discussions, generally agree or repeat what others say and do not stand out. They are all potential night kills if the pattern continues.

Spoiler for shockcannon:

shock is just being shock. Cannot tell if his weapon claim is a lie, a feint (actually mafia) or armed town. Generally, being town and credibly claiming you have a weapon should put you higher or the mafia night kill list, since you have a higher chance to be officer.

Time is nearly up, so time to go for my final vote, that of my strongest scum read. Insig is unlikely to respond, but with pressure being applied only late, this is not worth lynching him over.

Probably should not read too much in these early scumreads, I am just generally suspicious of people.

shockcannon (3) - Annele, vagman13, Mobian
dawn to dusk (3) - PlayerOa, Linkcat, Submachine
worldwideweb3 (2) - MasterWalks, TheonlyrealBeef
TheonlyrealBeef (1) - Espithel
Mobian (1) - worldwideweb3
MasterWalks (1) - iancudorinmarian
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Calindu

Will tiebreak for dawn > shock if a tie needs to be broken.

I find it hard to believe that TorB could make a post like this if he rolled mafia his first game.