Elements Mafia 72 - by Ginyu

[worldwideweb3]

Asking for protection from Doc.

Anyone who disagrees is mafia as only mafia would want me to not be protected so they can nk me.

[iancudorinmarian]

Raid is bad early game. Sub is either being silly or scum trying to out the cop asap.

Also, please DO NOT USE THAT STUPID WARDEN ABILITY JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE "SEEMS" SCUMMY.

YES, THE CAPS WAS INTENTIONAL.

Protecting w3 is dumb. @Doc, just protect someone random. It's best this early in the game.

[kaempfer13]

Do you need actual explanation why making noise n0 in general is obv terrible or can you conclude it yourselves? Subs plan is obv terrible

[Calindu]

Officer using raid at any time before they claim is very risky in my opinion. It relies on other players making noise in order to hide the officer, and stop at the right time so the officer doesn't stand out as the only one not making noise anymore. There are two strategies I find about using raid:

1. Officer raids right before they want to claim, no other actions that need to be coordinated are needed. No additional risk, low reward.
2. Officer raids N0, while as many players that can make noise do it, but not make noise anymore after. High risk, medium reward.

As you can see, the second strategy needs a high degree of coordination, and even then, it's still risky as we don't know how many players can make noise. Moreover, I'm not sure that knowing the primary role of a player 1 night earlier is that much better.  Also, even if the second strategy is executed correctly, the chance of the officer being sniped before they claim is still there.

I suggest officer holds onto raid until they want to claim.

[Linkcat]

Shit, I actually forgot that someone was going to die this phase. Doc on me. Don't listen to w3, he's mafia.

[moehrpi]

Heck, Town Musicians, start singing on Night 0. We need all the cover possible for the Officer. Let's make Night 0 the loudest night there is!

I would reserve that one for the night the officer wanted to claim anyway. An undertaker should use raid instantly over
any other ability though (it's the only way for them to gain alignement info directly unless both officer and grave robber died in the same phase, or very lucky grave digger use)

Why though? The Officer might not live until the day he wants to claim. And it's even more efficient if both the Officer and the Undertaker use Raid. The only downside is the noise, which you didn't address.

I oppose your plan. A blind raid is worse than one based on reads. We even could coordinate it on another night. Plus, even if it were successful you needed to claim which is bad. Raid is only one night faster than his other abilities. Of course, raiding and confirming town N0 could possibly safe them if they happen to be carried to the gallows. However, that seems unlikely.

[Submachine]

I think it's a good Night 0 plan for all Drug Dealers and Musicians to make noise, while the Officer may or may not use Raid. This uncertainty also keeps the Mafia guessing whether the N0 noisemakers had any Officers in it.

@Calindu, iancudorinmarian: The above plan should have no downsides and allows the Officer to make the decision.

The Officer's identity is also a factor. If he believes he is a popular Nightkill target, using Raid early can be beneficial to squeeze in as many info as possible. But if he is someone who mafia would not normally target, he can try his luck.

[kaempfer13]

Sigh, explanation time:
In order for the officer to get any use out of their ability they need to drop hints. Town may not recognize them instantly, but mafia has 4 heads and insider knowledge to discern them. There are maybe 4 roles in the game that make noise without killing or roleblocking at the same time and thats optimistic. As such the survival rate of the officer instantly drops to 1/5th, worse if they actually share their result somehow. Also it's a soft roleclaim for everyone involved

[moehrpi]

I think it's a good Night 0 plan for all Drug Dealers and Musicians to make noise, while the Officer may or may not use Raid. This uncertainty also keeps the Mafia guessing whether the N0 noisemakers had any Officers in it.

@Calindu, iancudorinmarian: The above plan should have no downsides and allows the Officer to make the decision.

The Officer's identity is also a factor. If he believes he is a popular Nightkill target, using Raid early can be beneficial to squeeze in as many info as possible. But if he is someone who mafia would not normally target, he can try his luck.

Sure, Officer gains more information. However, that information is not public and public information will be even more scarce that way. The only thing is that Officer saves one night phase. He loses his OU for any other night when there are actual reads.

[Submachine]

Spoiler for Hidden:

Sigh, explanation time:
In order for the officer to get any use out of their ability they need to drop hints. Town may not recognize them instantly, but mafia has 4 heads and insider knowledge to discern them. There are maybe 4 roles in the game that make noise without killing or roleblocking at the same time and thats optimistic. As such the survival rate of the officer instantly drops to 1/5th, worse if they actually share their result somehow. Also it's a soft roleclaim for everyone involved

I have an open mind, so let's say that it's not good for the Officer to make noise. I'm willing to accept this. So let's move on to the other noise-making roles.

Let's say we only have 1 Drug Dealer and 1 Musician. I feel this has a good chance. They both make noise only once during the game (during any phase). You say this softclaims them, but it doesn't. A person who made noise only once during a game can still be an Officer, a Drug Dealer or a Musician. And if the Officer was not among them, it serves as a comfortable decoy.

Town Drug Dealer and Town Musician are bad roles for Town anyway. The only useful thing they can do is to be decoys for the Officers. Is that not fair? I really believe this to be a good strategy for Town.


Sigh. Responding to moe will take more time, because I disagree with him in almost everything. Almost.

[PlayerOa]

While Sub’s plan is good in theory, I’m convinced the Officer gets even better protection if there is no noise pattern - i.e. random noise at random times from different people OVER TIME. At least mafia won’t eliminate 75% of officer candidates by D1 this way

[iancudorinmarian]

The chance that the officer gets a mafia N0 with raid is pretty low. And then he needs to claim. And if he gets a civvy, it's worthless, as he can't really confirm that person.

The officer should use raid late game when there is a high chance for it to fish out a mafia. Right now, it's an unnecessary risk.