Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine

[InsignificantWeeaboo]

Espi: v - doesn't seem to be too out of line.
Cali: n - Scumread would be based off of lynches, but a couple of his votes contradict my other (shoddy) reads.

Miscounted amount of people, which is 9 town and 4 mafia. This makes 7, then 5. NOW it's 2 mislynches.

[Espithel]

1. Linkcat
2. immortal_feud
3. kaempfer13
4. ddevans96
5. InsignificantWeeaboo
6. Espithel
7. MasterWalks
8. Mobian
9. mathman101
10. RootRanger
11. shockcannon
12. Ginyu
13. Calindu

Next lynch will have 12.
Then 10.
Mafia reach parity on day 6 (game over.)

One more lynch until lynch or die.

[ddevans96]

dd - Here because he acts how a town would, but also because he started the moe lynch train. Something tells me that it's not a coincidence. orchestrate

The lynch was discussed at length in chat, first suggested by Link. I made the initial vote because Link and shock were having a back and forth about who should go first and I wanted to make sure it got done before I went to bed.

[MasterWalks]

Calindu wanted to know why i put him as mafia.

IW/kae/Cal have had some interesting interaction history this game, as Espi and I have previously noted

What interaction history? The only interaction I had with kae is both of us defending Espi day 1.
The only interaction I had with IW is me calling him out on possibly lying.

You defend the one person i actually believe is mafia and you do it over and over

I personally don't get why lynching Espithel would be the better choice between him and MasterWalks. That's why I don't think lynching JCJ for this would be good either. To me, it seems like a 50/50, if not more inclined towards MasterWalks for having no base on his accusations. From his first post, I see that the whole 'who' function is the whole reason he even went with that, which I find pretty ridiculous.

I'll keep my vote on shockcannon for now, but I'm happy to change on Espithel if there's a good reason I can agree with.

This is kinda weird, but even weirder...

I believe it's high time I make a read list as well, order is random:

v v

MW - From my interactions with him, I firmly believe he's town. He gives away way too many thoughts to be mafia, although he made some questionable decisions.

v

IW - I see no reason he would claim warden targeting dd if he is mafia.
Espithel - No solid read, appears helpful to the town and does not give any weird vibe.
kaempfer - Helpful to the town in multiple ways, has good suggestions and all around appears town.

Over all, you have absolutely pounded and criticized every single thing i have done/said. You question me after everything. This is fine BUT you have seemed pretty sure i am town. Im even ranked higher than espi in your little town reads. Yet, in the second quote you said you are more inclined to lynch me rather than espi BUT then you say you are willing to swap your vote to espi (grated you did say if there is more info that arises). You are full of contradictions and non-vote pressuring. I get questioning someone to get a read on them, but when you already have a read, and a pretty sure one, you still do it. If i was to guess, you want role claims. You are the Brain of Mafia because your task is to narrow down roles until GN appears. Just my guess.


Also, im sad no one got the LOTR reference in my list
Y'all need to watch some real movies instead of anime.

Also, i get my first bases for lynching espi blows. When i get back home I will make a redux of it since there is more info now.

[Linkcat]

Alright, just so we're clear on why moe was lynched, I'm going to go through my logic yesterday.

As I explained, I believed that the mafia team was dd, Mobian, and two less active players, (Ginyu, math, feud, moe, Coffee), probably the ones that voted shock (math, moe, Coffee). Since this is based on dd being mafia, I pushed a lynch on him and he got 3 votes to shock's 5. The problem was that all the people who want to lynch shock even though he's town made it so that we couldn't get enough votes for a dd lynch. I keep pushing dd for a while, but people aren't budging and they keep asking me for alternatives, so I think about who else I'd be willing to lynch.

[2019-06-02 02:22:51] Linkcat: If we lynch someone that's not dd, it has to be somebody who has a good chance of being mafia whether or not dd is mafia, so Mobian I guess.
[2019-06-02 02:23:06] Linkcat: Or we could pussy out and lynch math/moe.
[2019-06-02 02:23:25] Linkcat: But I expect Day 4 would just be Day 3 part 2.

My priorites are made clear here. dd >>>Mobian >>>>>>>>math/moe

I also want to note here that dd and Mobian both refused to vote for each other yesterday.

I didn't mention Coffee since he took his vote off. I don't really want to lynch math/moe because however they flip isn't going to make an impact on anybody's reads and we'd just do it again tomorrow, but it would still be way better than a shock lynch. Now, the reason I even mentioned math/moe is that I wanted to take stock of who would be down for who's lynch. This is important information because whoever we decide on will most likely be the actual lynch. Mobian and dd, the two people I'm scumreading, both immediately show support for a math lynch. Obviously I don't want to go along with my scumreads, so I explain this and then try to get dd and Mobian to agree to a moe lynch just to see if they would. I got a yes from dd, and no response from mobian, which was notable. We ask him again, and he says this:

[2019-06-02 02:31:17] Mobian: ‹@Linkcat› I don't have a read on moe. I'm staying on shock because I dislike liars.

At this point I think there's a high chance of moe being mafia if Mobian is mafia, which I think he is. Having gotten the information I wanted, I immediately try to get a consensus on Mobian.

[2019-06-02 02:32:00] Linkcat: Okay, so we lynch Mobian then?
[2019-06-02 02:32:13] Linkcat: Any objections?
[2019-06-02 02:32:20] Linkcat: Other than Mobian, of course.

Of the four votes we're trying to align, me, shock, MW, and dd, the only one who's not on board is dd. He does not outright state until later that he had no intention of voting on Mobian, but with that being his stance he brings up what he believes is the remaining viable consensus option.

[2019-06-02 02:38:46] ddevans96: so we're lynching moerhpi
[2019-06-02 02:38:50] ddevans96: got it

You're trying to frame me as pushing the moehrpi lynch, but we would have gone for Mobian right then and there if you hadn't forced us to go for the other option we were considering, moe. Let's take a look at your post.

Link: Let's lynch math or moe.
Me and other person Link thinks is mafia: Sure, let's go for a math lynch
Link: Whoa, that's a red flag, we definitely need to lynch moe now.
>moe is town

You are completely misrepresenting what happened. Let's compare your "summary" to what I actually said.

Link: Let's lynch math or moe.

[2019-06-02 02:23:06] Linkcat: Or we could pussy out and lynch math/moe.
[2019-06-02 02:23:25] Linkcat: But I expect Day 4 would just be Day 3 part 2.

I clearly see a math/moe lynch as a last resort, not anywhere close to the push you showed. Next.

Link: Whoa, that's a red flag, we definitely need to lynch moe now.

[2019-06-02 02:24:07] Linkcat: Okay, huge red flag there.
[2019-06-02 02:24:14] Linkcat: Definitely lynch moe over math.
[2019-06-02 02:24:54] Mobian: ‹@Linkcat› explain your red flag?
[2019-06-02 02:25:43] Linkcat: I think you, dd, and two inactives are mafia, and you both wanted math over moehrpi.
[2019-06-02 02:26:03] Linkcat: That tells me it's likely moe +1 and math is town.
[2019-06-02 02:26:49] Linkcat: So you two are down for moe, right?

You tried to frame me as straight up pushing for a moe lynch, but the log clearly shows that I only wanted to lynch moe if we had to resort to lynching an inactive, and I then try to get you to bus your teammate, not directly push his lynch. The only reason we had to go with my last pick for the lynch is because you, and later kaempfer, wouldn't go for Mobian.

You're trying to pin it all on me with blatant misrepresentation, when in reality the moe lynch was a compromise between everyone present. We all chose to lynch him, so we all share the blame. This is by far the scummiest thing you've done this game.

Link to chat log.

[ddevans96]

[2019-06-02 02:31:17] Mobian: ‹@Linkcat› I don't have a read on moe. I'm staying on shock because I dislike liars.

At this point I think there's a high chance of moe being mafia if Mobian is mafia, which I think he is. Having gotten the information I wanted, I immediately try to get a consensus on Mobian.

At no point was it clear that you only brought up moe and math for information.

[2019-06-02 02:32:00] Linkcat: Okay, so we lynch Mobian then?
[2019-06-02 02:32:13] Linkcat: Any objections?
[2019-06-02 02:32:20] Linkcat: Other than Mobian, of course.

This was shady and manipulative. I would even say underhanded.

We had moved past the point of a Mobian lynch being on the table. We were discussing math and moe, and leaning towards lynching moe. You tried to subtly move the conversation back to Mobian, and people started to fall for the bait, because everything you have said this game has been taken as gospel. And I have zero doubt that it would have worked.

Of the four votes we're trying to align, me, shock, MW, and dd, the only one who's not on board is dd. He does not outright state until later that he had no intention of voting on Mobian, but with that being his stance he brings up what he believes is the remaining viable consensus option.

Espi had stated he would vote on me if I voted for Mobian. I was not going to take the risk of attracting a third misguided lynch train onto myself. It should have been very obvious that I was not going to vote for Mobian.

[2019-06-02 02:38:46] ddevans96: so we're lynching moerhpi
[2019-06-02 02:38:50] ddevans96: got it

You're trying to frame me as pushing the moehrpi lynch, but we would have gone for Mobian right then and there if you hadn't forced us to go for the other option we were considering, moe. Let's take a look at your post.

Actually, you 'forced' the conversation back to Mobian, a person only you were actually talking about at that moment, and I made this comment, directly mocking yours, as an attempt to make it clear that I noticed your bullshit, and redirect people to the conversation you interrupted by bringing up your crusade against Mobian again.

[2019-06-02 02:23:06] Linkcat: Or we could pussy out and lynch math/moe.
[2019-06-02 02:23:25] Linkcat: But I expect Day 4 would just be Day 3 part 2.

I clearly see a math/moe lynch as a last resort, not anywhere close to the push you showed. Next.

[2019-06-02 02:24:07] Linkcat: Okay, huge red flag there.
[2019-06-02 02:24:14] Linkcat: Definitely lynch moe over math.
[2019-06-02 02:24:54] Mobian: ‹@Linkcat› explain your red flag?
[2019-06-02 02:25:43] Linkcat: I think you, dd, and two inactives are mafia, and you both wanted math over moehrpi.
[2019-06-02 02:26:03] Linkcat: That tells me it's likely moe +1 and math is town.
[2019-06-02 02:26:49] Linkcat: So you two are down for moe, right?

You tried to frame me as straight up pushing for a moe lynch, but the log clearly shows that I only wanted to lynch moe if we had to resort to lynching an inactive, and I then try to get you to bus your teammate, not directly push his lynch. The only reason we had to go with my last pick for the lynch is because you, and later kaempfer, wouldn't go for Mobian.

moe was not a lynch option until you put him on the table. Also, I didn't consider him an inactive.

You're trying to pin it all on me with blatant misrepresentation, when in reality the moe lynch was a compromise between everyone present. We all chose to lynch him, so we all share the blame. This is by far the scummiest thing you've done this game.

At no point have I said you are exclusively to blame for moerphi's lynch. It was absolutely the compromise lynch.

However, you did set the events in motion. You could have never mentioned him and he would still be alive. You also directed a push on me on d1, which has since only served to confuse and distract town.

And don't say anything to me about blatant misrepresentation, when I've been a victim of that all game. Multiple people have made scumreads on me based completely on mistruths. I have trouble believing it's all coincidence.

If you aren't mafia, I'll cut off my dick, sign it with purple glitter, and sell it on Amazon.

[Ginyu]

First off, I will be further limited on time until Tuesday, but will try to post more regularly. From Wednesday on, I'll have more time.

Reading through the last 6 pages, it was pretty hard to follow some actions as tons of info is hiding in chat logs that just grow larger and larger as time progresses. Gladly, at some point later reasons were giving.

First, I don't see why Espithel's post was ignored entirely, at least for that Day Phase. I can follow his thoughts very well and Mobian barely managed to defend against the claims (especially trying to get away with the "hammer" looks cheap). As really no one was arguing with it besides Mobian himself I cannot read much out of that unfortunately. However, one thing that strikes me even more is the very sudden train going on on moehrpi, which I read no real reasons for. Linkcat said he preferred to lynch Mobian, but then just went with moehrpi because ddevans disagreed with Mobian?
Now, I have two questions: Why was ddevans opposed to lynch Mobian, and why did his opinion basically decide the vote mostly alone (at least, this is how I read Linkcat's post). That you were considering mathman over moehrpi does not really make a difference here.

Apart from that, shockcannon lying consistently and confusing town several times surely is "bad town" - if he is town. However, it seems to me that the biggest reason he is still alive is him "just being himself", and such low base against anti-town play is dangerous water. Obviously his mafia members wouldn't try to stop him from being so, as this allows him to generate distraction while making him look town without any real justification. I am aware many people tried to lynch him, but that never got the majority.

Lastly, as some players might have realized, I have restrained from voting until now to keep Graboids hidden, which was originally the idea of dawn (I hope I remember correctly). Graboids are immune to Nightkills and as such I wanted to help them get cover, as trying to NK them will result in an additional day for us, and may have even worked N0 (although the JCJ target seems more likely to me). To make up for my lack of votes, I tried to post my thoughts on everydays lynch (except the last one as I was on holiday over the weekend). As more people reveal their roles, that tactic might not be valid for much longer, however, and I would like some other opinions on this.

I will post my reads when Link and dd responded, but right now Mobian, shockcannon and those two are on my watch list. [Also, it is 5:25am, and I do not want to overwrite my post now that I saw ddevans' reply.]

Ceterum censeo mafia chat esse delendam.

[Espithel]

Okay! Let's get this out of the way, can we?

Here's everyone's roles thus far:

1. iancudorinmarian - Fate Egg
2. Linkcat - ????
3. PlayerOa - Seraph
4. JonathanCrazyJ - Fate Egg
5. immortal_feud - ????
6. kaempfer13 - ????
7. ddevans96 - Anubis
8. dawn to dusk - Otyugh
9. InsignificantWeeaboo - Warden
10. Espithel - :^)
11. MasterWalks - ????
12. Mobian - Amber Nymph
13. Coffeeditto - Warden
14. mathman101 - ????
15. RootRanger - ????
16. shockcannon - Mind flayer - Dubious
17. Ginyu - ????
18. Calindu - FFQ
19. moehrpi - Guardian Angel

Known but not claimed: FFQ2, Anubis2*, Warden2, GN, GN.
*ddevans claims to not have targeted Link with Anubis, meaning there's likely a second one running around, or a fate egg.


The potential graboid candidates are RootRanger, MasterWalks, Mathman101, Espithel, Kaempfer, Feud, and Linkcat. They have all voted.
This means that if there is a graboid in the game, it has to be Ginyu.

Ginyu is not the graboid. If he was, he wouldn't be asking if he could vote or not.
Therefore, there is no Graboid in this game.

Start voting, Ginny.

[InsignificantWeeaboo]

Okay! Let's get this out of the way, can we?
Known but not claimed: FFQ2, Anubis2*, Warden2, GN, GN.

Wouldn't that just be Coffee?

[ddevans96]

First, I don't see why Espithel's post was ignored entirely, at least for that Day Phase. I can follow his thoughts very well and Mobian barely managed to defend against the claims (especially trying to get away with the "hammer" looks cheap). As really no one was arguing with it besides Mobian himself I cannot read much out of that unfortunately.

Espi's post came way later than expected, and was basically just a rehash of points he'd already been making in chat. My biggest issue with the post is that his second of two claimed hammers was in absolutely no way a hammer. It's really not a bad post, but in the context of this game, I'm just kind of over everyone saying 'ignore shock, he's a liar', and meanwhile a ton of posts like this are bending the truth in some way.

I'm not a big fan of his other two points, either, and I'm also scumreading him. I don't think the post should be discarded as useless, but I'm personally taking it with a grain of salt.

However, one thing that strikes me even more is the very sudden train going on on moehrpi, which I read no real reasons for. Linkcat said he preferred to lynch Mobian, but then just went with moehrpi because ddevans disagreed with Mobian?
Now, I have two questions: Why was ddevans opposed to lynch Mobian, and why did his opinion basically decide the vote mostly alone (at least, this is how I read Linkcat's post). That you were considering mathman over moehrpi does not really make a difference here.

Answered in my post - the short answers are 'because Espi' and 'it didn't'.

My current theory is that Link gave two names, moe and his mafia buddy math, and suggested them in tandem, under the guise of soliciting opinions. If his mafia reads supported a math lynch, he'd do as he did, saying 'red flag', and because we don't want to lynch Mobian, moe gets the rope - if we picked moe he'd have just been like 'yeah, go for it'. And if we ignore those two options, someone he knows is town (Mobian, shock, me) gets lynched instead. It would give the illusion of choice, when in reality he's in complete control. It slots into what I think mafia's playstyle is this game.

[immortal feud]

mafia seem to be NK'ing inactives so it seems likely that i die tonight

[Espithel]

Okay! Let's get this out of the way, can we?
Known but not claimed: FFQ2, Anubis2*, Warden2, GN, GN.

Wouldn't that just be Coffee?

I'm retarded!
Yes, that would just be coffee.

Congrats, there's three unknown roles instead of two.

Espi's post came way later than expected, and was basically just a rehash of points he'd already been making in chat. My biggest issue with the post is that his second of two claimed hammers was in absolutely no way a hammer.

Look at how scummy you had to look - organising with tons of people at the last second to lynch someone who couldn't defend himself - In order to not get Shock lynched.

How is that not an attempt at absolutely ensuring Shock's lynch?
How is that not a hammer?