Elements Mafia 71 - by Submachine

[moehrpi]

Maybe he's claiming mafia70 Grabboid.


Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (1) - kaempfer13
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (1) - moehrpi


A bit too quiet, way too mafia.

[ddevans96]

Spoiler for Chat Log - 2100 GMT (regarding: shockcannon's playstyle):

[2019-05-23 14:48:48] ddevans96: yeet
[2019-05-23 14:48:49] ddevans96: big post
[2019-05-23 14:51:20] Espithel: You couldn't've waited until after I finished work, could you
[2019-05-23 14:51:22] Espithel:
[2019-05-23 14:51:30] ddevans96: haha owned
[2019-05-23 14:52:23] Espithel: ((((((((((((
[2019-05-23 14:52:32] ddevans96: just skim it
[2019-05-23 14:52:44] ddevans96: it basically tl;dr to 'I don't like MWs post, lynch Espi'
[2019-05-23 14:53:10] ddevans96: and then 'wtf is shock doing'
[2019-05-23 14:53:44] Espithel: I have
[2019-05-23 14:55:45] kaempfer13: id ont like what mws doing, better lynch espi
[2019-05-23 14:55:53] ddevans96: yes
[2019-05-23 14:56:33] ddevans96: I think MW is the 'obvious' lynch rn - that being said, I explained in the post why I strongly dislike going for the 'obvious' lynch [on d1]
[2019-05-23 14:56:47] kaempfer13: personally i dislike what shocks doing even more though
[2019-05-23 14:56:50] Espithel: Because you hate furries
[2019-05-23 14:57:06] ddevans96: shock is chaotic neutral
[2019-05-23 14:57:11] Ginyu: These posts start to look more like riddles than anything.
[2019-05-23 14:57:14] ddevans96: like a more insane justaburd
[2019-05-23 14:57:39] kaempfer13: so my incompetence vote would go to him atm, just dont want to jump backand forth constantly, so ill wait for the defense
[2019-05-23 14:57:40] ddevans96: I'm totally okay with lynching him early every game, just be aware that he's playing that way on purpose, it's not a scum tell
[2019-05-23 14:58:51] Espithel: What I will say about MW is, yeah, that was a stupid post of his
[2019-05-23 14:59:00] kaempfer13: i find it extremely unlikely that mw has a role that told him espi is mafia
[2019-05-23 14:59:00] Espithel: But he's at least furthering discussion
[2019-05-23 14:59:26] Espithel: Posting this in forum now.
[2019-05-23 14:59:31] ddevans96: yeah - if that was the case, he could lay low, and just say 'let's go with Link/dd's petty lynch'
[2019-05-23 14:59:48] kaempfer13: he mostly just voted espi because he was one of the 2 persons that werethrown shade at in espis rulequestionpost
[2019-05-23 15:00:09] Mobian: ‹@kaempfer13› This is always shock's go-to play style. It's annoying, but it's shock.
[2019-05-23 15:00:13] Calindu: I don't think shock posting that is a sign that he's mafia, as I've seen in the previous mafia, but that type of gameplay is kind of destructive and hurts the town way more than it helps it
[2019-05-23 15:00:54] ddevans96: agreed on both counts
[2019-05-23 15:01:06] kaempfer13: ‹@Mobian› yh, butif we have no tells getting rid of the chaff is better than killing someone actually helpfull to us
[2019-05-23 15:01:08] Mobian: ‹@Calindu› No kind of about it. The way I see it, we have 3 factions. Mafia, Town, and Shock.
[2019-05-23 15:01:44] iancudorinmarian: If shock blocked me I'm going to lynch him.
[2019-05-23 15:01:46] ddevans96: pretty much
[2019-05-23 15:01:51] kaempfer13: and since shock just plays that way either way he might just be mafia
[2019-05-23 15:02:16] Calindu: Yeah, I remember there used to be a role that wins if they get lynched, Shock plays like that

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Espithel (2) - MasterWalks, ddevans96
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (1) - moehrpi


Yo, new house, 2 jobs, went to pub quiz last night, mate over to play magic tonight, got another mate coming for the bank holiday weekend. Just getting on before my bedtime on laptop.

All my posts so far have been by phone, and i hate typing by phone.

My vote is on MW because i agree with dd.  info from an early feud is interesting regardless of result. I'm voting for MW though out of teh two selfishly because i friggin love espi and i'm happy to see him back in community so don't want him lynched day 1

[JonathanCrazyJ]

oh, re shock's playstyle, I kind of like it as i said last game, it's like a more on-topic Solaris. take it as face value. Interesting = fun, interesting =/= bad. if anythign interesting sparks conversation and conversation = good

[MasterWalks]

[13:59:48] ‹kaempfer13› he mostly just voted espi because he was one of the 2 persons that werethrown shade at in espis rulequestionpost

This is not true. Idc about him throwing shade in that post. Lynching someone Day 1 based on throwing minor shade is a terrible idea and i recognize it as so.

[Espithel]

First off:

then theres espithels breakdown on how mafia is more likely to be protected, so chances are ian will either uncover the nightkill target or a mafia member with room for uncertainty ofc.

I would like to stress that I didn't say that the mafia is more likely to be protected. All I said is that it's a possibility; I actually think it's slightly less likely that Ian hit a mafia. I might be wrong.

So! Dwaddy Ewans. owo
Your argument's essentially that Scum!MW is trying to bus Scum!Espithel so that if one falls, the other one looks innocent.
You then want to lynch one of us to gain more information. You then decide to lynch me because you hate fun.

MW is acting like a novice mafia right now, so your logic works. Can't argue with that.

I'd like to poke you with two things, though.

Spoiler for big quote chain:

Oh this is super sketchy. Espi had options here.
He continues to use it without telling anyone. Thats real Mafia spirit. He uses a tool to his advantage until told otherwise.

The only thing this tool can do to rise suspicion is tell you if someone is sending a PM. So this doesnt role reveal meaning the only person this tool is harmful to is Mafia. The only people who wouldn't want this tool used is Mafia. So Espi asking in public is super weird. He couldve asked sub in private just as easy. But it sounds like he wants to tool banned. His excuse? The spirit of Mafia.
Damn good excuse tbh. HOWEVER, asking about its legality in public is still really weird. It doesnt sit right with me. Espi doesnt sit right with me overall tbh. Lemme break it down into pros and cons.

Not sure about any of this. If he was mafia, and wanted to use the tool to his advantage, wouldn't it have been the safer play to not post publicly, in order to not remind people/let people know that it exists? Or even just bring it directly to Sub? I don't see how mafia gains anything from such an elaborate metagaming gambit.

Also - sending a PM doesn't really role reveal at all, since many roles PM, and most of the people in this game have other forum responsibilities. I think reading into this too much at all is unproductive. Maybe even a diversion.

Pros if we lynch
Mafia Kill
No more owo posts

Cons
Possible civ kill tho i doubt it.

Pros outweigh the cons.

This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory. It feels like it's forcing a conclusion.

What you have just posted is a lot less concise version of how I feel about MW's post. When I first saw it, I was really confused on how to tackle it because it was just so wrong, on so many fronts, as you've pointed out.

I thought there was a hidden agenda, honestly. However, as poorly made an argument it is, it was contributing to a conversation and I didn't want to discourage MW from further discussion by absolutely tearing into it. It doesn't matter what we're talking about, as long as we keep conversing.

So, instead of responding, I decided to brush it aside instead:

vore me daddy

Pros to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Mafia Kill
No more Vore

Cons to Lynching InsignificantWeeaboo:
Possible civ kill, although I doubt it.

The pros outweigh the cons.

Espithel (1) - MasterWalks
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel

I hope you see the parallel between the above post and yours: "This analysis really does nothing - it's just 'lynching mafia good, lynching town bad', which is self-explanatory."

I'm bringing this up because I feel that if we were both scum, I would be expected to retaliate against him to make the bus seem more real. I haven't, and don't really intend to. It's what he'd want if he's scum.
I'll accept one of us being lynched, though, because the logic here is perfectly sound. I just don't feel it properly describes reality.

Secondly:

You've already told the entire group, including the mafia, you have a role that targets. That's already pretty brazen of you.
That's really the bit the mafia care about when they decide who to kill - the role itself. The roles they hate the most all target, so you've basically just asked to be nightkilled at some point. Same goes for you too, Walks.

I want to reiterate the last part of this - MW also stated he used an ability. In my opinion, this is detrimental to town - we agreed not to use (most) offensive and defensive roles, so this narrows down your potential abilities, a piece of information that helps the mafia more right now. And furthermore, unlike iancu's statement, which we could potentially get information from immediately if we chose, there's no such potential benefit for town from MW's statement.

(aside: I don't think iancu should reveal specifics right away - it's just worth noting that does create a plan we could pursue if we desired)

Much like how we asked if Ian should tell us who he targeted, is there anything to be gained in asking MW the same?
Unlike Ian, MW is currently under the lens of being mafia. That might change the dynamic.

[MasterWalks]

Here is the thing tho. You got me trapped.

If i say i targeted you, then mafia is instantly going to assume the worst and conclude i am GN.

If i say i targeted ANYONE else other than you, then i get lynched because people will believe I am scumming you.

I will not reveal my target and i suggest ian does not either.

I think you know you got me trapped. I think you want me to reveal target so I get lynched or i get NK'd. There is not a single person i can say i targeted that will not get me killed.
Honestly, well played.

[kaempfer13]

Here is the thing tho. You got me trapped.

If i say i targeted you, then mafia is instantly going to assume the worst and conclude i am GN.

If i say i targeted ANYONE else other than you, then i get lynched because people will believe I am scumming you.

I will not reveal my target and i suggest ian does not either.

I think you know you got me trapped. I think you want me to reveal target so I get lynched or i get NK'd. There is not a single person i can say i targeted that will not get me killed.
Honestly, well played.

meh, getting nightkilled on the assumption of gn is less bad than a misslead lynch tbh

[Linkcat]

Espithel (3) - MasterWalks, ddevans96, Linkcat
InsignificantWeeaboo (1) - Espithel
MasterWalks (2) - kaempfer13, JonathanCrazyJ
dawn to dusk (1) - iancudorinmarian
JonathanCrazyJ (1) - moehrpi

If you keep calling everyone daddy, we're going to have to bring out the belt.

More later.

[Espithel]

K

Time to call everyone mommy instead

Wommy WinkWat Nu XwX

[Linkcat]

Can I vote twice?

[InsignificantWeeaboo]

I dunno, are you Wyrm?