Elements Mafia 70 - by Linkcat

[shockcannon]

I've heard that acting as an unhelpful civ is an effective strategy for important roles to avoid being killed at night.

[RootRanger]

I've heard that acting as an unhelpful civ is an effective strategy for important roles to avoid being killed at night.

Aye, they avoid being killed at night by being lynched during the day.

[Linkcat]

Spoiler for Meandering mafia chat convo:

[20:35:57] ‹shockcannon› i ask one question and people already want to lynch me
[20:36:13] ‹Linkcat› Welcome to mafia.
[20:36:58] ‹Mobian› Did you really expect anything else? You're well known for having a chaotic nature, after all.
[20:38:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 70 - by Linkcat from shockcannon in Forum Games. Can you find Wally?
[20:38:06] ‹shockcannon› lets spice up this game
[20:38:07] ‹shockcannon› why not
[20:39:16] ‹shockcannon› also my question got rootranger to share his plan for how the town should strategize
[20:39:27] ‹shockcannon› so I've only caused good discussion for the town so far
[20:40:09] ‹shockcannon› and now the real GA, whether that's me or not knows how other people think he/she should play
[20:40:23] ‹shockcannon› allowing for a more informed decision making
[20:40:25] ‹Mobian› From my research, his seems to be a fairly standard strategy though.
[20:40:42] ‹shockcannon› I'm all about standard
[20:40:48] ‹shockcannon› creativity is an unnecessary risk

Spoiler for Not related to current mafia:

[20:40:53] ‹Vineroz› I think Mafia is a pretty dumb game.
[20:41:06] ‹Mobian› Why's that?
[20:41:59] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› You gonna stick around this time?
[20:42:11] ‹Vineroz› nobody will know who you are if you don't talk
[20:42:11] ‹MasterWalks› For wut
[20:43:25] ‹Vineroz› but if you talk, you get killed
[20:44:17] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› iono
[20:44:22] ‹shockcannon› i join mafia because it's another opportunity to win
[20:44:32] ‹shockcannon› I talk because I know talking increases your chances of dying
[20:44:37] ‹shockcannon› which will make my win even more impressive
[20:44:42] ‹Mobian› I like the mindgames
[20:44:59] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Vineroz› choosing the path of least resistance only lessens your accomplishments
[20:45:17] ‹Linkcat› People who don't talk will either get lynched early or get shot by a town killing role, so it's always a bad idea.
[20:45:33] ‹Linkcat› The only exception is when nobody talks, which gives mafia a free win and has happened before.
[20:45:51] ‹Mobian› ‹@shockcannon› Maybe, but be careful to not rub people the wrong way... I'd like to see you win for once
[20:46:03] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Mobian› lol. for once?
[20:46:11] ‹shockcannon› how many tourney wins you got?
[20:46:20] ‹shockcannon› also moehrpi going down 5-0 once majofa posts the next round
[20:46:32] ‹Vineroz› I guess playing mafia on the internet is better than irl
[20:46:39] ‹Vineroz› (I've only played irl)
[20:47:05] ‹Mobian› ‹@Vineroz› I think the forum-based version allows for more shenanigans and strategy
[20:47:25] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Vineroz› you should join my forum game once it gets posted
[20:47:32] ‹Linkcat› It's very different, so it's up to preference, but it still depends on the people who are playing.
[20:47:44] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Vineroz› its has mafia elements but eliminates all the issues you seem to have
[20:47:46] ‹Linkcat› If you didn't have a good time playing irl then the problem was likely with the group.
[20:47:54] ‹Mobian› There's no body language to worry about, so it's all how you project yourself based on your words
[20:49:32] ‹Mobian› And I'm autistic as hell, so body language is a bitch for me to decipher, but words.... words are fun.

[20:52:35] ‹MasterWalks› If we get rid of shock early, not only do we have a chance of eliminating a mafia, we will eliminate the cryptic mind games too
[20:53:13] ‹Mobian› While true, isn't that what this game is all about?
[20:53:26] ‹shockcannon› That's the thing about shock. Could be either. He could simply be trying to help in his own strange way, too. I wonder what he's really thinking.
[20:53:29] ‹shockcannon› lol
[20:53:52] ‹shockcannon› how about......GA saves me tonight
[20:53:57] ‹shockcannon› and investigative role investigates me
[20:54:19] ‹MasterWalks› Yea but shocks mind games are narcissistic mind games. We need someone who mind games others
[20:54:38] ‹Mobian› A valid point...
[20:54:48] ‹shockcannon› i already put myself out there
[20:54:56] ‹shockcannon› probably going to get a few visits tonight
[20:55:13] ‹shockcannon› perfect opportunity for the dragonfly to watch me and gain a hwole lot of info
[20:55:25] ‹shockcannon› see how i'm setting stuff up?
[20:55:45] ‹shockcannon› most night 0s were probably a crapshoot with everything happening at random
[20:55:52] ‹shockcannon› but i'm offering a centralized avenue for information flow
[20:56:33] ‹Mobian› You really do like the spotlight, don't you?
[20:56:56] ‹shockcannon› no, i really like winning
[20:57:04] ‹shockcannon› but I also understand how people view me
[20:57:29] ‹shockcannon› so in this scenario, putting myself in the spotlight to give townies more early info is my best shot at winning
[20:57:56] ‹shockcannon› you think if I stay quiet and say nothing that i'll be ignored?
[20:58:02] ‹shockcannon› insig and master would probably still try to lynch me
[20:59:07] ‹Mobian› I dunno. I have no idea how this will all play out. I'm just taking it one moment at a time
[21:00:23] ‹shockcannon› honestly, if i stay quiet, that'll probably be even more suspicious because of the expectations everyone has for me
[21:02:01] ‹AveragePotato› The latest forum post is Re: Elements Mafia 70 - by Linkcat from RootRanger in Forum Games. I found Waldo.
[21:02:08] ‹Mobian› I dunno, shock.... You've been known to be rather insightful when you're not busy being obnoxious
[21:06:40] ‹shockcannon› lol
[21:09:36] ‹MasterWalks› Shock, if you were a mafia, who would you kill?
[21:10:02] ‹shockcannon› probably you
[21:10:18] ‹Mobian› Why Master?
[21:10:19] ‹MasterWalks› :heart:
[21:10:42] ‹shockcannon› because he's actually going to be a useful player
[21:11:02] ‹shockcannon› wait
[21:11:12] ‹shockcannon› @Linkcat do roles of lynched or killed players get revealed?
[21:11:21] ‹Linkcat› Yes
[21:11:33] ‹shockcannon› mafia/town and role?
[21:11:38] ‹shockcannon› or just one or the other
[21:11:46] ‹Linkcat› Both
[21:11:56] ‹shockcannon› interesting
[21:12:43] ‹Mobian› Indeed....
[21:13:41] ‹Mobian› So we're going to experience anywhere between 3-8 rounds
[21:13:58] ‹Mobian› And each round SOMETHING will come to light....
[21:14:11] ‹MasterWalks› 3 would be a perfect run. Has that ever happened before?
[21:14:53] ‹Linkcat› I won Mafia 55 in three phases, but that's because the setup was broken.
[21:15:43] ‹Mobian› If there are multiple golden nymphs, then it's possible for all of the FGs to be revealed quickly
[21:15:44] ‹shockcannon› ‹@Linkcat› let me get this straight
[21:16:03] ‹shockcannon› hypothetically if I was schrodinger cat
[21:16:10] ‹shockcannon› and I wanted to survive being lynched tomorrow
[21:16:15] ‹shockcannon› I should use my ability tonight?
[21:16:33] ‹shockcannon› and then if I did get lynched, I would be revealed and lose my ability?
[21:16:40] ‹shockcannon› but I would still be alive
[21:17:29] ‹Mobian› yup
[21:17:57] ‹shockcannon› cool
[21:22:06] ‹shockcannon› ‹@MasterWalks› ‹@Mobian› i'm offering you two and everyone else a golden opportunity
[21:22:35] ‹shockcannon› if all the information roles visit me tonight we'll have a lot of evidence to work with
[21:22:43] ‹shockcannon› and more evidence=better for town
[21:24:54] ‹MasterWalks› That's a terrible idea
[21:27:18] ‹PrivatePotato› You have a new private message.
[21:27:26] ‹Mobian› ‹@MasterWalks› I'm inclined to agree with you. Using all investigative techniques on a single target is simply wasteful.
[21:27:27] ‹Linkcat› There was also Mafia 53 where the mafia, including me, were all killed extremely fast.
[21:28:04] ‹Linkcat› This is because there were THREE COPS, one of which killed any mafia they voted on.
[21:33:16] ‹Mobian› there's only 1 cop role in this version, right?
[21:33:21] ‹MasterWalks› Yea but you could be mafia simply pretend to have one.
[21:36:08] ‹shockcannon› the only investigative role that's a true"resource" is the golden nymph
[21:36:42] ‹shockcannon› for example, if the dragonfly checks someone and no one visits them they essentially get 0 information
[21:36:50] ‹shockcannon› and who the dragonfly checks is pretty much random at this point
[21:37:20] ‹shockcannon› but if all the informative roles check the same person they can verify each other
[21:37:27] ‹shockcannon› this makes it harder for people to fake role claim
[21:37:29] ‹Mobian› Firefly is a thing too
[21:39:06] ‹Mobian› Investigative abilities are also mostly EoR, so wasting them all on a single person buys the mafia a free turn
[21:40:16] ‹shockcannon› does it though?
[21:40:34] ‹Mobian› Absolutely
[21:40:42] ‹shockcannon› figuring out multiple townies is better than guessing 3/14 for mafia
[21:41:15] ‹shockcannon› the only abilities that can actually learn mafia are golden nymph and dragonfly
[21:41:24] ‹shockcannon› and dragonfly has to randomly choose the same person the mafia chooses
[21:41:31] ‹Mobian› in 4 rounds, you'll have confirmed 2 townies
[21:42:02] ‹shockcannon› in 4 rounds you'll have 2 confirmed townies no matter what you do
[21:42:06] ‹shockcannon› unless golden nymph dies
[21:42:16] ‹Linkcat› The Nightkill cannot be tracked.
[21:42:33] ‹Mobian› And when the mafia can eliminate a player every round, why wouldn't they eliminate the confirmed civs?
[21:43:36] ‹shockcannon› nightkill can't be tracked!?!?!
[21:43:43] ‹shockcannon› even more reason to use my strategy
[21:44:39] ‹Mobian› Talk about wasteful...
[21:44:43] ‹shockcannon› I'd rather confirm the dragonfly, psion, and firefly by day 1 then have those 3 roles randomly choose and potentially learn nothing
[21:45:11] ‹shockcannon› how is it wasteful?
[21:45:16] ‹shockcannon› you confirm 3 roles right off the bat
[21:45:35] ‹shockcannon› if those 3 roles can't track nightkill, then they have no way of figuring out mafia anyways
[21:46:32] ‹shockcannon› I legitimately see 0 downside to having dragonfly, psion, and firefly all look at the same person Night 0
[21:48:12] ‹shockcannon› having psion and firefly look at the same person is no different than if they randomly picked, because they learn different things.
[21:48:28] ‹shockcannon› and then if the dragonfly also visits that person, they can confirm who the psion and firefly are

[Submachine]

I don't really feel like looking at past games. Is the optimal strategy for the guardian angel to reveal early or no?

I can't help but think that you may or may not be the Guardian Angel. But it could also be one of the following:

• An indirect message to the Guardian Angel, trying to help him without revealing him.
• An attempt of "Hey Town, I may be an important role, so don't kill me".

Either way, psychologically none of these mean to me that shock is mafia.

[Mobian]

I can't help but think that you may or may not be the Guardian Angel. But it could also be one of the following:

• An indirect message to the Guardian Angel, trying to help him without revealing him.
• An attempt of "Hey Town, I may be an important role, so don't kill me".

Either way, psychologically none of these mean to me that shock is mafia.

Perhaps, but his focus on trying to get the investigative roles to all target the same person is troubling. In so doing, this could cause them to reveal themselves, and potentially put a target on their heads, and if not, still spend all the cooldowns for 2 turns on a single target, which may end up getting knocked off by the mafia.

[DoubleCapitals]

"[20:39:16] ‹shockcannon› also my question got rootranger to share his plan for how the town should strategize"

Root is Root. He'll have done this regardless lmao

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Your strat assumes mafia dont have secondary roles. It confirms nothing except secondary roles. It also wastes a 1/9 chance angel happens to save a civ tonight, because i can guarentee mafia wont target you.

[dawn to dusk]

Obviously there are complications to this plan so we shouldn't strive for it unless it drops into our palms, but we get some fun things to occur if Phoenix dies early.

Golden Nymph can tell them who to vote for, and people can, for the most part, vote for that person if they consistently put the vote on the same person.

It gets even better if Vulture targets Phoenix, then also dies, then you get two "confirmed towns"

The cost of this is 4 dead towns over 2 days 2 nights which is why we shouldn't strive to get this, also the lack of Vulture -> Golden Nymph if Nymph dies. It's an extremely nice novelty to get though


Most reading comes from discussions about the game, I don't like the bread question set like "Who is your favourite Spice Girl" "What is your favourite colour" "What do you think town should do" because they don't really achieve much, but if someone else wants to make one then go ahead I guess? For the most part, we should actively discuss a lot of things openly, who dies and why they die, etc. This can help people start to "read" others, though it may end up being just as useless as the bread questionnaire

[shockcannon]

Alright. Clearly I rubbed some people the wrong way. I'm just going to stop talking and let you guys figure out the strategy. Probably won't hear from me for at least a couple night/day phases assuming I make it that far. I'll just reveal as schrodinger cat right now so no one has to ask or question why I'm not talking. I'm using it tonight so I at least live to see night 1 in my first mafia game.

Peace

[DoubleCapitals]

@shockcannon

Spoiler for Hidden:

[dawn to dusk]

But what if this was a bait the whole time

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Alright. Clearly I rubbed some people the wrong way. I'm just going to stop talking and let you guys figure out the strategy. Probably won't hear from me for at least a couple night/day phases assuming I make it that far. I'll just reveal as schrodinger cat right now so no one has to ask or question why I'm not talking. I'm using it tonight so I at least live to see night 1 in my first mafia game.

Peace

Didn't rub me up teh wrong way at all lol, I just gave my 2 cents on your strategy. In fact i can't really see many people going heavy on you (I have played a lot of mafia, and Night 1 over reading into everything is kinda tradition. don't take it to heart. What you shouldn't do it 20 mins into a game ragequit for a few days. Clearly you are thinking, and that''s the main thing, i just don't agree with your strat (though i may have misunderstood teh rules.

Can you lay out your strat target by target, and write out what you hope to achieve with each target? as i understood it, it wastes a load of abilities to only find out secondary roles which could be maf or town, but am I wrong?