Elements Mafia 68 - by Kuroaitou

[Submachine]

If Coffee is willing to go through with your protection though, we should still support it. After all, as long as you live, there's more reason to keep Coffee around longer, right? If you die, we'll ask for an explanation and eventually get somewhere from there. Even if Coffee gets lynched afterwards, if he's mafia, his explanation won't matter anyway, but if he's town, we'll have a lead.

[Submachine]

Also I'm not sure why everyone talks about an Observer, when one already died. We might not have another, though there should still be a Town/Maf/Intel Doctor around if Kuro decided to give every role a chance.

[Naii_the_Baf]

Kuro had already said there would be roles reapeating themselves(we already have www and Link having the same) so there MUST be at least one doctor. We just don't know who it is yet. On the other hand, Kuro also mentioned not all the roles would repeat, so the quantity of doctors is unknown. If we assume having the most balanced role repartition, there would be only 2 roles not repeating themselves. We already know it's not Officer, nor Jailor(assuming what gino said is true).

[rob77dp]

Kuro had already said there would be roles reapeating themselves(we already have www and Link having the same) so there MUST be at least one doctor. We just don't know who it is yet. On the other hand, Kuro also mentioned not all the roles would repeat, so the quantity of doctors is unknown. If we assume having the most balanced role repetition, there would be only 2 roles not repeating themselves. We already know it's not Officer, nor Jailor(assuming what gino said is true).

I don't see how you're sure there is a Doctor in the game. The OP simply states there are 10 secondary roles. The flips of TWO Officers (Intel!www3; Town!Link) confirms that roles can be duplicated. While it is not a large logical leap to make to assume that means EVERY role occurs at least once, I'm not aware of how you seem to know we MUST have at least one doctor in the game.

We already know it's not Officer, nor Jailor(assuming what gino said is true).

Let's talk about this for a little bit... First part is "yeah ok duh" but the second part catches my attention. What has gino said that allows the player-base at-large to know that Jailor is not a singular occurrence in the game? It feels like you may have TMI...?

[Naii_the_Baf]

We already know it's not Officer, nor Jailor(assuming what gino said is true).

Let's talk about this for a little bit... First part is "yeah ok duh" but the second part catches my attention. What has gino said that allows the player-base at-large to know that Jailor is not a singular occurrence in the game? It feels like you may have TMI...?

I'm saying that if what gino says about not having jailed me is true then there must be another jailor who could have done it. Did nobody think of this before?

[UTAlan]

Scratch the plan for tonight. Observer ability won't take effect until the next night. That means Coffee could do as he pleases and get away with it.

Did you get any vibes that Coffee was onboard with it thinking he could do just that (get away with it)??

Not in particular. In fact I'm not sure if he's even acknowledged the talks of using him in plans. 

What has gino said that allows the player-base at-large to know that Jailor is not a singular occurrence in the game? It feels like you may have TMI...?

Gino claimed to not have jailed fabian, meaning either fabian is lying (seems unlikely given Kuro's response about the "e" in fabian's post), gino is lying (seems unlikely as he has shown quite a bit of town allegiance even outside of his claim), or there's a second jailor.

[Naii_the_Baf]

Kuro had already said there would be roles reapeating themselves(we already have www and Link having the same) so there MUST be at least one doctor. We just don't know who it is yet. On the other hand, Kuro also mentioned not all the roles would repeat, so the quantity of doctors is unknown. If we assume having the most balanced role repetition, there would be only 2 roles not repeating themselves. We already know it's not Officer, nor Jailor(assuming what gino said is true).

I don't see how you're sure there is a Doctor in the game. The OP simply states there are 10 secondary roles. The flips of TWO Officers (Intel!www3; Town!Link) confirms that roles can be duplicated. While it is not a large logical leap to make to assume that means EVERY role occurs at least once, I'm not aware of how you seem to know we MUST have at least one doctor in the game.

I admit you got a point there. But with 18 people entering the mafia it is highly probable that every role is in the game when there are only 10 possible roles that are not locked into any faction.

[UTAlan]

Not in particular. In fact I'm not sure if he's even acknowledged the talks of using him in plans. 

Oops. Also meant to add that I was just going through all the roles again to look for any holes in the plan. (And found one.)

If Coffee is willing to go through with your protection though, we should still support it. After all, as long as you live, there's more reason to keep Coffee around longer, right? If you die, we'll ask for an explanation and eventually get somewhere from there. Even if Coffee gets lynched afterwards, if he's mafia, his explanation won't matter anyway, but if he's town, we'll have a lead.

If Town!Coffee protects me but is jailed by a Criminal, I'm a free confirmed-town-NK. Plus then we lynch Coffee for not protecting me and we're down 2 town because of a failed plan. And I don't see how we're any closer to catching scum compared to if I had survived NK and someone not-Coffee had been lynched.

You're right that we might not have any more Observers, so making a plan that revolves around having one (and a Town one, at that) is probably inadvisable. Doesn't really matter now since that plan is scrapped, regardless.

Regarding Doctors, unless the last 2 mafia are both Doctors (unlikely since one is probably a jailor), then mafia is no closer to knowing if there are 0, 1, or 2 doctors in the game than is public knowledge. At this point I think we need to go on the assumption that there's at least 1 of every role (including doctor) and hope we got lucky and ended up with 2 town doctors. (Publicly confirming exactly how many doctors we have would be inadvisable as that helps mafia more than town. Just the fear of a doctor will affect the NK target and potentially buy us more time to find scum.)

[rob77dp]

I would propose the new plan be for a Town!Doctor - or both if we have two - to target you (UTA) tonight with ability 1. Nobody should publicly buy in to this plan lest Criminals get *gasp* clues about who might or might not be a doctor...

[UTAlan]

I would propose the new plan be for a Town!Doctor - or both if we have two - to target you (UTA) tonight with ability 1. Nobody should publicly buy in to this plan lest Criminals get *gasp* clues about who might or might not be a doctor...

I would modify that with: Target either dd or myself. Flip a coin to decide or randomly pick one or pick who you like more.

This gives a chance that two town doctors could end up protecting both of us, and also makes it risky for mafia to target either of us.

[mathman101]

With 2/4 Criminals dead and two Officer flips already I'm seeing not much investigative-night-actions being left on the board -- a mass role claim _may not_ be a bad idea at this juncture to more concretely lay out such plans... However, no protective roles have flipped so I could see the upside to staying hidden/secret too. Thoughts/comments from the rest of you lot?

Not yet, but I see nothing wrong with aiding the INTEL once we near the end(1 mafia left) as long as they are continuing to help us. If INTEL tries to double cross town by aiding the mafia then we should not help them giving out our roles. Also double checking the OP, I think they only need the secondary role name (Male Escort, Fortune Teller, Detective, etc.) not the other name Officer/Doctor/Hitman/Student. (May need clarification from Kuro though if I have misunderstood this)

Since Town can still win even if INTEL win that is my reason for helping them later closer to end of game, if only town OR INTEL could win but not both then I would say no need to help them.

A bit off-topic, but what about mathman's Hitman ability 2? It's there, and if used in agreement of the majority, it's like an extra lynch every night, just with a small delay.

I was thinking of attempting to target one of the "Please Shoot" people from Linkcat's list, but would like feedback on if there is a preferred target. I was thinking also not to say which of the three I picked as this could risk doctor saving and eliminating my SU ability. But of course I am not planning to target until the end of the night after some possible discussion.

[UTAlan]

I was thinking of attempting to target one of the "Please Shoot" people from Linkcat's list, but would like feedback on if there is a preferred target. I was thinking also not to say which of the three I picked as this could risk doctor saving and eliminating my SU ability. But of course I am not planning to target until the end of the night after some possible discussion.

Sounds good to me. I think it's safe to advise any (Town|Intel)!Doctors to avoid protecting anyone on that list, but not publicizing which one you target is a good safeguard against a possible Criminal!Doctor.